Wild Black Rat Snake - Attempting to Rehab

[MelissaFlipski]

For reference if you haven't been following this story:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=63167
and
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=63200

Yesterday, I did set up a tub for him after I saw him poking his head out from under the deck again. I put him in it and gave him some antibiotics (Zithromax) - once on Monday and once on Tuesday. But it turns out the liquid was mixed 12/31/07 and probably not effective.

I spoke to a wildlife rehabber today. She recommends draining the infection and rinsing it out with sterile water. I'm going to contact an exotics vet tomorrow for advice, etc. Any thoughts from you guys on this???

It was a hard choice to bring him in, but I couldn't just leave him outside with that infection. I would always second guess myself. And I may still second guess my decision to bring him in, but at least I am trying to help him. As a child, I was the girl that was always bringing injuried / sick animals in the house - the pre-flight orphaned pidgeon, the limping squirrel, etc. One winter, I even had a 10 gal glass tank in which I kept each mouse my cat caught - then let them go outside in the spring. I also brought home all the stray dogs and fed them against my mother's wishes. It's just part of who I am.

Still, I do think of the stress I could be causing him. He is not visibly stressed at least. Yesterday, he just sat on my lap calmly while inside in a warm room - no need to restrain him at all. And he hasn't always been in his hide. But I have decided to keep handling to a minimum - treatment and husbandry... which is hard to do b/c he has a totally COOL personality.

I still welcome advice, resources, etc. from all of you! Thanks so much!

[littleindiangirl]

If he is hardly moving or flicking his tongue often, he is a very sick snake. If you were to take him to a vet, I'd do it soon. I understand where your coming from, I would have done the exact same thing in your shoes. I can't let anything suffer.

good luck with this, I hope he pulls through.

[MelissaFlipski]

I saw him doing some tongue flicking the first day we saw him. But not really since. He has been very calm and only occasionaly active.

I still need help.

I am sort of at an impasse. The wildlife rehabber I spoke to was very willing to help (but I suspect she sees a lot of turtles and no snakes) but insists that I puncture the infected area and squeeze out the fluid and wash it with saline or sterile water, even using a syringe (no needle on it) to inject sterile water to wash out all the puss. However, she has not even seen pictures of it (computer is down). I am not sure I am comfortable with that. Does anyone have experience with this type of infection? If you want me to describe it in detail or post more pictures, please let me know.

Also, it turns out that the Zithromax I was giving him (3 does over 3 days of 0.10 ml, equivalent to 4 mg) is no good - it was mixed too long ago. I do have Baytril, but that stuff is so strong! Should I use it? He's 610 grams and about 5'.

The very reputable vet I called today (well, the med tech who answered the phone) was not at all helpful. She would not offer an appointment (I could only surrender the snake) or give advice (since they hadn't seen the animal). She only confirmed that the Zithromax would be ineffective due to its age.

I don't want to turn him over to someone and then never get him back here. I feel very strongly that when released, he should be right where I found him. It's almost a proprietary thing - we have 8 acres and need our snakes. Our neighbors are NOT snake friendly, so we do our best to make up for it.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Resources? Any vets or vet techs out there??

Thanks!

[Patrick Long]

I think you should let him go, away from your home.

[littleindiangirl]

What she is describing to you is what your supposed to do for pus filled absesses. The absess will become septic and eventually lead to death.

When you lance it, you squeeze out the pus, and do exactly like she said with saline, you wash it out. Sometimes you have to do this a couple times a day, just to keep the absess clean and pus free.

He will most likely need to be on antibiotics to fight off the infection, and kept warm with plenty of water and minimal handling....

If you find a vet that can help you, I would do that as well.

[MelissaFlipski]

Pat, I'm too proprietary, but if I get in over my head, I will.

Connie, thanks for the advice. I did pierce it last night and get some puss out. You are right about it spreading. I could already see it elongating on his belly in both directions.

Also, I finally got in contact with a snake rehabber in NY - not close to home, but sounds like she knows what she is talking about. She wants me to swab the area with betadine 2x a day. I'm waiting to hear back from her on more details (diluted betadine or straight? Baytril or not? etc.). I do think I should do the Baytril, too, but I want to verify with someone and see what they think in terms of dose. Based on weight, I could extrapolate given our ball python's weight and the dosage she was taking for her URI.

Once I hear back from the gal in NY, I may call around to some vets and see if they are willing to help with meds, etc. The one vet I called was very "by the book" and not willing to give information, etc. To be honest, I am not a certified wildlife rehabber, but at least I have some knowledge about snakes and all the motivation in the world.

Thanks! I'll keep you posted. And, any more ideas, just bring 'em on!

[Montessa Python]

I think doing the antibiotics is the right thing to do.. But putting betadine ON it won't do any good.. You need to rinse the abcess out With the sterile water OR with a betadine solution. People do it all the time for dogs and horses, and cats.
You can look online to find a mixture solution. In the mean time I would seriously go to a feed store OR go to a vet and by a syringe and needle and go in there and get that puss out and open that abcess up. And rinse it with sterile water. YOu can spray the inside with a bacitracin/water mixture, it can't hurt. He probably won't like it..
But you have to get it OPEN and drain it.. the betadine won't do anything on the surface it needs to in where its infected.

Pleas keep us updated.

Carol

[Skiploder]

Melissa - did you try any of these vets?

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/wvirginia.shtml

[MelissaFlipski]

Melissa - did you try any of these vets?

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/wvirginia.shtml

No, those are all at least 4 hours away. But I guess a phone call to ask for suggestions wouldn't hurt. I did contact Dr. Stahl on the Virginia list (Vienna is only an hour or so away). And the med tech that answered the phone was not helpful at all.

Update:

The timber rattlesnake rehabber in NY is awesome. I have been swabbing the area with betadine (after I pierced it and got some puss out and washed the area with sterline saline). She agrees that the snake should only be released to the exact location where we found him.

She wondered if the lump under the interior skin could be a bott fly maggot. But it doesn't look like it b/c I can't get it to move.

The infected area is looking slightly better - the skin is starting to dry up and will come off with the next shed. But the lump underneath is going to continue to be a concern. It's almost as big around as a dime and about as thick as 3/16" in the center.

I will give him a soak in a few days to prevent dehydration. The rehabber says he won't be ready to eat so soon since he's just out of hibernation. So we'll wait on that. Also, we'll wait on the antibiotics since it does not appear to be a systemic infection.

He does have a few white spots inside his mouth, toward the front, on both the top and the bottom. Does anyone know what this could be? Doesn't look like he has stomatitis, could it be yeast or some other fungal infection? The rehabber suggested putting a tiny bit of betadine on it. What do you guys think? Seems a bit toxic for the mouth. I could dilute it though. Take a look:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...32108mouth.jpg

[littleindiangirl]

That lump would concern me the most, and I would be certain that it has to be removed because to me it seems likely that the infection was caused by a injury that left behind some foreign material (the lump).

Of course, if it can't be moved, it may not be a foreign material, and may go down as his infection heals....

I'm not quite sure, just throwing around ideas. Keep updating for us!