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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran JoshJP7's Avatar
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    ReptileRadio Question

    Ight so I missed reptile radio last week and had a question for adam... and pretty much everyone involved in BP's... This is an opinion based question and I'd like to see everyones opinion...

    Does the size of the cage a snake lives in have ANY effect on the clutch size?

    My theory is that a larger enclosure would allow a snake more room to move around and get more exercise. This exercise will in turn make the snake healthier and hypothetically produce more eggs. I know that there are plenty of breeders who keep their snakes in smaller enclosures and still have plenty of success with breeding and getting large clutches. Again this is just my theory and I will be testing it out this year and in the years to come with some more concrete answers down the road.
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  2. #2
    West Coast Jungle's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshJP7 View Post
    Ight so I missed reptile radio last week and had a question for adam... and pretty much everyone involved in BP's... This is an opinion based question and I'd like to see everyones opinion...

    Does the size of the cage a snake lives in have ANY effect on the clutch size?

    My theory is that a larger enclosure would allow a snake more room to move around and get more exercise. This exercise will in turn make the snake healthier and hypothetically produce more eggs. I know that there are plenty of breeders who keep their snakes in smaller enclosures and still have plenty of success with breeding and getting large clutches. Again this is just my theory and I will be testing it out this year and in the years to come with some more concrete answers down the road.
    Clutch size is dependent on snake weight and health although obese snakes do not breed well. but. I think that over feeding is the cause of obesity and not lack of excersize. So I don't think your theory would be correct.

    Ball pythons thrive under the security of small dark areas, larger cages don't provide that as well so stress (i think) would act negatively on breeding/clutch size.

  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran JoshJP7's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Ok so you say that the snakes health is important... more exercise = better health. As far as stress... I offer 2 hides inside each enclosure so stress is not a factor by any means
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    BPnet Veteran Uncle Festae's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    A good friend of mine hatched out a clutch of 15 eggs this year from a 4000g female that has lived her entire adult life in a 27qt tub (rubbermaid #2221) So I would have to say no...

  5. #5
    Old enough to remember. Freakie_frog's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshJP7 View Post
    Ok so you say that the snakes health is important... more exercise = better health.
    This is true in warm blooded animals because our muscles can atrophy where as cold blooded animals muscles do not atrophy. Also reptiles burn far less calories than warm blooded animals so exercise with I sure offers a slight benefit to the animal would not be enough to dictate health or increase clutch size.
    When you've got 10,000 people trying to do the same thing, why would you want to be number 10,001? ~ Mark Cuban
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  6. #6
    BPnet Veteran JoshJP7's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Maybe I need to be a little more specific with my ?... I understand that it is still possible to get a large clutch from a big snake ... say we have 10 females in small tubs... 10 females in large tubs... they breed... will the average clutch size be larger with the females in small tubs? larger tubs? or it doesnt matter?
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  7. #7
    BPnet Veteran littleindiangirl's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    I think your still trying to think mammalian, or warm blooded. Snakes bodies use food differently than warm blooded animals. I don't know the specifics, but it takes a simple observation to show that the weight of the snakes, fat percentage, is far more important than the exercise it gets.

    Snakes are sedentary, cruise around to hunt, have excellent senses to hunt with, all to maximize their meals and metabolism to get food quickly and put it to use for digestion and growth.

  8. #8
    BPnet Veteran JoshJP7's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Connie you mention fat percentages and weight... doesnt fat content decrease when exercise increases? Maybe I dont know enough about snake digestion/nutrition its just hard for me to think that exercise wouldnt benefit the snake... Freakie makes a good point with it bringing benefit... its just unsure of how much benefit... I guess thats what I would like to find out.
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  9. #9
    BPnet Veteran littleindiangirl's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    It's hard to explain what I want to get across. Exercising the muscles of a snakes body is not going to in a sense "make them healthier" as they do not exert the same amount of energy as a warm blooded animal.

    (This is all regarding Balls)

    If you want to decrease the fat of the snake, feeding them less will encourage their bodies to more effectively use the meal towards digestion, lean body weight and growth, and have less left over to store for later use.

    We aren't saying that exercise won't stimulate a snake, but you must understand that with a MUCH slower metabolism, who's to say that the act of constricting, and eating the meal is not sufficient for maintaining good body mass. Snakes use so much of their meal just for muscle growth, I don't think their sedentary lives promotes a fat snake in any way. (But over feeding will)

    I think if you were to try and get your snake to exercise more by letting him run loose in a very large cage, I think you would find him more often than not sleeping and waiting for you to bring him food.

    At night they may roam around, but I still don't think your going to see them utilizing the space like you want them to. Who's to say that the weekly constricting and eating isn't enough for them to stay fit?

    If so much of their meal goes towards growth in captivity, by forcing them to exercise and hunt their food themselves, your taking away from them using that energy towards growth. I think that all leads back to why WC snakes will eat (when they do eat) whatever you put near them. They are programmed to eat as much as possible to put on weight and mass because so much of it is used for hunting etc, and they never know when the next meal will come along.

    If you increase the exercise, you must increase the food. I would think the results would still be the same, and the free roam snake would actually mature slower than the ones in the small enclosure. (And also remain smaller)

  10. #10
    BPnet Veteran Spaniard's Avatar
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    Re: ReptileRadio Question

    Josh,

    I don't think you're ever going to find out the answers your looking for. The population sample size of the experiment would have to be pretty large in order to get results that are statistically significant. You or I with our limited snakes wouldn't really be able to experiment and have our results really mean anything. We would need to experiment with hundreds of snakes in order to have results we could legitimately compare.

    With that said many of the breeders who have this number of snakes are housing in rack type set ups with "less" space available. So I think it would be hard to actually get a concrete answer to this question.

    Sorta like the whats better...rats or mice debate.
    ~*Rich
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