Serious problem: Box Turtle

[littleindiangirl]

I have a roommate that has a box turtle. He's had it for years, and I've never paid any special attention to it. I am hardly at the apartment, as I pretty much live at my boyfriends house. Anyways, he is gone for 2 weeks and asked me to take care of the turtle. He tells me to change the water every few days, and to feed him every few days. Ok I say.

Well, I first went to check on him last monday after work, his water bowl was nasty. I cleaned and scrubbed it (it was green, and the bowl is pink) and gave the turtle fresh water, which he immediately dove in and pooed. Irk. Anyways, left him, bought some more food. T-rex box turtle food.

Today, chris and I go back to check on him, I notice when I pick him up that he poos, and his stool is runny and green. His repti-carpet is black where he lays. I decide to wash the carpet. I PEEL it off the glass, there is mold, old food, nasty stuff gluing this to the glass. I am so disgusted, I clean everything up, wash off the turtle, go and buy some repticarpet, and nail trimmers. This guys poor nails and beak! he has a severe over bite, and his back nails were so deformed and it looked painful. I did my best to trim the nails, changed the carpet, gave him fresh food and water. His shell is dry and deformed looking. I'm sure he doesnt have proper UV lighting, as it is on 24 hours a day, and probably old. His humidity is non existent. He has a heat rock, and a ceramic dish thing that barely holds food without it spilling all over the place.
I have been up since 3 am thinking about this animal that I now know is in horrid conditions and health. I got up at 3:30 to look at care sheets, and now it just makes me worry even more. My roommate has always loved turtles as a child, so this box turtle cant be that old.
What am I to do? Should I tell him how to correct his husbandry and hope he does it? Or should I offer to foster the turtle? I dont know how to go about telling him his set up is horrendous, and Im surprised the turtle is still alive. He is a great friend, and is even considering getting a corn snake. But after this, I will tell him a snake is just not plausible with how he doesnt care for a turtle properly. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

[frankykeno]

Connie, it's a fine line to draw when you are trying to get a friend to do better but don't want to offend them or make them defensive (then they won't listen anyways). How about this...

Tell your roommate that since you don't have a lot of turtle experience you went online to look up "stuff" so you could take care of the turtle for him while you were turtlesitting. Then go over some stuff you printed out, things you learned or websites you found. If he seems receptive, then you'll likely get your point across. If he seems defensive or disinterested, then you may have to get a bit stronger in your position that they aren't caring for this animal correctly, it's suffering and something needs to be done for it.

[littleindiangirl]

Connie, it's a fine line to draw when you are trying to get a friend to do better but don't want to offend them or make them defensive (then they won't listen anyways). How about this...

Tell your roommate that since you don't have a lot of turtle experience you went online to look up "stuff" so you could take care of the turtle for him while you were turtlesitting. Then go over some stuff you printed out, things you learned or websites you found. If he seems receptive, then you'll likely get your point across. If he seems defensive or disinterested, then you may have to get a bit stronger in your position that they aren't caring for this animal correctly, it's suffering and something needs to be done for it.

Thanks Jo, I've literally been up all night thinking about this and how to approach. I was thinking about using your idea, and the more I think about it, the better it seems. He respects me and Chris for our dedication with the snakes and rats, and that has gotten him interested in keeping them and learning more about them, so I'm hoping that will help sway his decision on how to correct the husbandry issues. I've already begun to spend money on this animal, and I hope I wasn't overstepping my welcome in the first place. I was thinking of just discussing with him the serious health problems I noticed as an amateur, and show him the "remedies" I found after scouring tons of caresheets. Hopefully things go well. I still have another week of turtle duty, I'm holding off just kidnapping it for now. LOL j/k.

[littleindiangirl]

Okay, so I have written a summary of the problems with the turtle and how to correct them with husbandry. Should I post it to see if there are any glaring problems? I am not really that knowledgeable when it comes to turtles, so any help is appreciated.

[Sinsation]

I would suggest you print up some care sheets with lists of diets and heating and lighting needs. Rather than make it seem your going after him try the approach hey since I was caring for your turtle I decided to do some research to give him the best care I can and I thought you may enjoy the tips I found. Thus saving your friendship with your roommate and possible embarrasment.
Also as a box turtle owner myself Id suggest getting rid of the carpet, it gets dirty quickly then bacteria just sits in it. I use aspen shavings, its cheap and easy to work with. We also provide our turtle with a hide (a coffee container with a hole cut out) and she loves it. And it should have a more varied diet to fresh fruits and veggies (no lettuce). Our turtle loves fishing worms, meal worms and crickets. But will only eat red fruits, she loves watermelon nectarines and strawberries. And uvb lighting needs a fresh bulb once a year I was told.
Hope any of this helps you.

[frankykeno]

I've had turtles before and I can't imagine using nasty carpet. There's just no way you could keep it clean or mould free with all the wetness and their waste products and so forth....ick! I'd toss that fast.

Post whatever you need hon for advice from our resident turtle experts. You may want to try a very gentle, friendly approach upfront but have all the information at hand. Also whatever you can do now to ease this turtle's life, you're doing a wonderful thing! Good for you for stepping up for this animal.

[littleindiangirl]

Okay, I feel a little better now. Here is what I wrote, the more I read it, the more I feel he will do the right thing. He is an extremely smart guy, so I hope he doesn't take it the wrong way. But here is what I wrote.
I dont like to sugar coat things, because I believe that effect will make this seem less urgent. But here it is without bashing him in the head. :/

Hello!
Just observed a few things regarding the health of your turtle over these past few weeks; he is sick.

He has runny green stool. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's supposed to be whole and soft/squishy. I believe it can be corrected with an assortment of green veggies/fiber once daily like: romaine lettuce, collard greens, vegetables, squash, sweet potatoes and some non-citrus fruit DAILY. Also, earthworms and meal worms will restore his depleted fat deposits. You must change his water whenever he soils it or at least daily. With him sick it will create a bad circle of events.

If it continues, he may develop kidney and liver failure, and his blood will become toxic and he will die. If it continues like this and doesn’t clear up, I do know of a very good reptile vet in Auburn that will probably be able to help you. Your turtle is still young enough that it shouldn't have any lasting harmful effects if we catch it early.

His beak is getting too long and the overbite may start to inhibit his eating habits, which could be the reason he is skinny. I suggest a cuttle bone and flat rock as a food dish. The cuttle bone will provide calcium as well as keeping his beak in good condition.

His back toenails were seriously warped, damaged and much much too long. I have trimmed them to a reasonable length. To keep them trim without the manual clippings, provide a larger rock for him to scamper around on (I know this will almost require a larger keep, but we will get on to that)

His shell is dull, dry, crackled and slightly deformed. It should be shiny and hard. This is from lack of a well rounded diet and poor vitamin nutrition. Your basking lights are only good for 4-6 months, as the vapor creates a film on the inside of the bulb, preventing UV rays from penetrating. He is in serious need of some good 'ol time in the sun. Taking him outside for a half an hour a day will do TONS of good to get him better in conjunction with the bulb. He needs it to be on a 12-12 hour’s schedule. Not doing so will stress him out further, and keep his immune system in the rut. You may even have to give him a calcium supplement twice a week to help him recover; otherwise you are putting him in risk of shell rot.

Speaking of shell rot, I have thrown out your old reptile carpet, and bought you some new ones (it was bad man). The old one was growing black mold in his hide and underneath the food dish. I have sterilized the food dish, and cleaned up most of the mold. His carpet needs to be washed in a weak bleach solution once every week, rinsed and hung to dry. There is an extra carpet for switching them out to do this. You may even need to switch his water dish to a ceramic (dog dish) one to help with his nails.

MAJOR CHANGES NEEDED
Depending on his species, they need a high level of humidity to prevent RI's (respiratory infections) and keep him healthy. You currently don’t have any thermometer/hygrometer to measure this. Nor do you mist him. I have read that American box turtles need 70-85% ambient humidity. "...kept warm (85° F ambient) and humid, fed regularly, and not allowed to hibernate." I'm going to say he is currently at 45-50% humidity, most likely 30-35% because of the 2 overhead heat sources. This is crucial in bringing him back to health. I can show you a great DIY to create a high ambient humidity with a screen cover. In the meantime, I suggest a brick of coconut bark as substrate or cypress mulch to keep it moist.

On top of all this, all the literature I've read suggests a much bigger enclosure for your turtle. I would even suggest dumping the tank all together and buying a rubbermaid/sterilite tub. They are extremely successful habitats, and while not appealing to the eye, it will be very beneficial for your turtle. If you want more current care sheets, I can print out ones species specific for you.

Please read through this with an open mind. If you want some more advice or setup help, I am more than happy to assist you along the way. If you decide you don't want the turtle anymore, we can talk about your options. Thanks a bunch!

[littleindiangirl]

Well, I brought the turtle home with me.

[jessie_k_pythons]

if you need more info on Boxes I might be able to help, What type of Box is it?

I have an eastern and I can take photos of my set up that I have for him it was easy to make.

Just let me know if I can be of any help.

[littleindiangirl]

if you need more info on Boxes I might be able to help, What type of Box is it?

I have an eastern and I can take photos of my set up that I have for him it was easy to make.

Just let me know if I can be of any help.

Well, this is a story I never finished. It was a very awkward situation, but I brought the turtle home with me. She was ill. Not too bad, she did have some mucus in her water bowl, and once in a while she would bubble up the nose.

I bought her a cuttle bone for the beak, I trimmed her nails, I gave her a supplement calcium spread on greens, mushrooms, some fruit. I also offered her the canned box turtle food, some small bits of extra pungent cat food as well. I also went and bought some meal worms. She did eat the cat food one day, and barely ate for the next 2 weeks. I did see a good improvement after having her for 2 weeks. She was getting 14 hours of light, she was kept at 85 deg all the time on cyprus, and was misted twice a day.
She really liked to go into her water dish a fish for floating food bits. I cleaned her up nice. She was actually getting better. Her skin started to heal, and she loved to burrow in the cyprus. (Before she would just lay there)

Unfortunately, after 2 weeks, my roommate came back for her. I told him what I knew about his sick turtle, and he acknowledged that he used to give her a varied diet, and trim her and keep her in better conditions. I told him about the cyprus and misting. The regular changing of UV bulbs, and even printed a general box caresheet for him. He accepted everything. I thought that I had made a great difference for him.

Well, 2 weeks later, I was moving out of the apartment. The mealworms, calcium, cyprus were all still in the same bag. The turtle was back in the same 20 long aquarium. Repticarpet, barely any water, and it was green. Not enough heat, and a sicker turtle than before. She now has an eye problem. She may still have an ri. I am pretty sure she will die a slow death. I tried, but sometimes people think they know best. He had the turtle for 12 years, and said it's always been fine. I couldn't open his eyes, even with how passionately I felt for this turtle.

Sometime people have to learn the hard way.