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Thread: bull snakes

  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran Gurgie's Avatar
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    bull snakes

    dunno if I'm in the right spot or not, and if not can someone please redirect me?

    anywho, I'm seriously thinking about getting baby bull snakes for my girls for christmas (they are 13 and 9). we've had my bp's for about 2 years or so now and the kids love it. they help me take care of them and stuff, and have some experience with snakes.

    so the girl at the pet store and I had a conversation about what could be best as a "starter" snake. she brought out a baby bull...no more than a month old...and it was simply adorable!! it seems to be a fairly decent snake for kids to start with...fairly mellow and just cute as a button. (cant get over the cuteness factor. we're talking the size of a full length pencil!)

    so anyway, I guess what I'm asking is this : anyone have bull snakes, and if yes, how do you feel they would rate as a beginner snake?

    I was told they are native to Minnesota, and my youngest's teacher has a yard full of them, so they have to be pretty hardy to survive a minnesota winter...hibernation and all.

    (wonder if I'm thinking about making it a christmas present for them so I can play with them too?)

    we actually got to see them hatch, so I guess they are kind of special to me in a weird sort of way.

    (also, I dont always have computer access so if I'm taking a while to get back to anyone, please bear with me. we had a crazy move and nothing from trouble from our local cable internet company. I mean, takes 5 weeks to get it to the point it wasnt dropping packets, and we had 16 techs come out and try to fix it. last guy swapped out the modem and it worked fine. go figure, eh?)

    so I'm behind on stuff.
    "I'm pink, therefore I'm SPAM."

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    1.0.0 leucistic texas rat snake, Bloop (1 year)
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  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran Evan Jamison's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    I moved your post to this forum, as they are not a king/milksnake.

    Bulls, pines, and gophers are all great beginner snakes, as long as they are healthy CB animals. I have had a number of Pituophis over the years, and have really enjoyed having them around. Living in a state that they are native, make sure you know the local laws on owning bullsnakes.

    Hope this helps.

    -Evan

  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran djansen's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    I live in washington and I go out and catch them for fun then let them go but they all seem to be nasty!
    my friends had one that was mellow but most seem to be very high strung.

    for a beginner colubrid i would reccomend a corn snake. Another option for a beginer snake that i really love is the rosy boa, they are so smooth and mellow.
    I'm not your friend buddy!

  4. #4
    BPnet Veteran jjspirko's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    Bull Snakes are EXCELLENT beginner snakes with just a few cautions.

    1. You are right they are very hardy but just because they live in MN does not mean they can handle sub freezing temps. You have to give them a good viv with correct temps and a good gradient just like you would a corn or any other common snake kept as a pet.

    2. They can get pretty big, like 5-7 feet depending on the line, phase, region, etc. They don't need a huge viv but a bit more space then say a corn or garter. They never get "huge" and they are never that girthy, certainly no problem for most kids to handle, just plan on needing a minimum of say a 30 long for them as adults.

    3. Fed well they grow fast, they can and do often hit 5 feet in one year if you feed them well. Not really a caution just that bigger cage may be needed sooner then you think.

    4. Despite what djansen says they are very docile animals, every bit as docile as a corn. Wild caught Bulls are very hissy and will strike and even bite on ocassion. Yet even they calm down if you are gentle and don't grab them behind the head etc. pretty quick. Corns are no more docile then a bull, anyone doubting that just head to Florida, The Carolina's, etc and go find some wild corns, any belief that all corns don't bite will quickly pass. To me Corns seem harder to calm down if they are wild adults then bulls. Bulls just HISS real loud.

    5. The hissing could be an issue with the young girls. Sometimes any snake just does not want to be picked up. When a tame corn or ball is in that mood they generally try to escape or hide. A bull (even a tame one) will sometimes get hissy. They are reluctent to bite but like my niece had issue with one of my bulls hissing at her, (thought it did not like her, took it personal, ) but those antics are rare. Just know they might hiss on ocassion and make sure the kiddos don't get upset about it.

    Overall given a large enough viv and the right feeding and temps they are almost bullet proof. To me they are a highly overlooked beginner snake, they are far more interesting then corns and if you want a morph there are getting to be almost as many bull phases as corns. Hypos are beautiful, natural red phase ones from both the Crumbly and Ginter Lines are very cool too. Just a plain old normal bull is as good as any in my opinion.

    I just find them more fun then corns! They always get 5ish or better feet and a bit thicker and just seem to have more personality.
    Jack Spirko

    Check out "the site" on the African House Snake - and get a free copy of "The Reptile Book", by Raymond L. Ditmars.

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  5. #5
    Registered User MechWarrior's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    Yes, those make good beginner snakes. Hognose snakes are a good option too, but that's your desicion (as you said your local petstore seems to have Bull snakes, and Hognoses aren't as common to find at a store, so I guess you should go with the Bull Snakes).
    Herps I own: 0.1 Northern Brown Snake

  6. #6
    Registered User MechWarrior's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    An important note about Bull Snakes: It's very hard to keep them from hibernating, so either ask a vet for suggestions to "keep it awake" or just let it hibernate. P.S. I got this info from a book by Chris Mattison (a well known author on reptile care books and someone who has decades of experience with them) so I don't want some know-it-all disagreeing with me. I bet Chris knows what he's talking about. Off topic: has he made a revised 4th edition yet for TCRAIC?
    Herps I own: 0.1 Northern Brown Snake

  7. #7
    BPnet Veteran jjspirko's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    Quote Originally Posted by MechWarrior
    An important note about Bull Snakes: It's very hard to keep them from hibernating, so either ask a vet for suggestions to "keep it awake" or just let it hibernate. P.S. I got this info from a book by Chris Mattison (a well known author on reptile care books and someone who has decades of experience with them) so I don't want some know-it-all disagreeing with me. I bet Chris knows what he's talking about. Off topic: has he made a revised 4th edition yet for TCRAIC?
    First, you are correct Bulls are netorious for going off feed regardless of how warm you keep them and simply doing a standard chilled burmation is probally the easiest thing to do with them.

    Second, I am not trying to be a jerk here but loose the attitude. Yes Chris is a well known and respected author and I own several of his books. Yet just because any author says anything does not make it "true", what it means is it has been true for him or her in their climate and with the lines they have worked with.

    Chris is in the UK which has a very defined photo period which will lead to more of a need for animals like bulls to burmate. By the way snakes DO NOT hibernate they burmate.

    Not all bull snakes are the same either. This is a species that ranges from northern Mexico to southern Canada to make any blanket statement about the habits of such a species is not possible. Do you really think a Crumbly or Ginter Red Bull (those are well known bull snake breeders) from Central Texas will behave the same as say a line native to central Kansas?

    I do not know what you are trying to prove but you posted a quite arguementive follow up to your OWN POST. What are you trying to prove here? The first person that would tell you that you simply can't apply absolutes to a species as diverse as a bull snake is Chris himself. I also don't know what you think a DVM is going to do to "keep it awake". I have seen specificly wild caught bulls kept warm, stay awake and still fast for 80-120 days.

    Carl Kauffeld who was a well known author long before Chris, I and deffinitely you were born noted the same observations in "The Keeper and the Kept" and he also noted in "Snakes and Snake Hunting" that bulls from southern regions were less prone to this.

    So do I sound like a "know-it-all" if so I am sorry but this response is to your attitude. I would suggest if you want to get along try to have some level of humility here. These are good people in this forum and God knows I have had my share of disagreements and debates but when you insult someone before they even speak, when you show the attitude you have in response to yourself, well that is probably not the best way to win friends and make yourself heard.

    I would also point out that MANY of the people here have decades of working with snakes and other herps behind them as well. Consider this please and feel free to present your view and opinions but again you don't need to bring an attitude with you.

    If you think I am to harsh take a second and go read your own post as though it was someone else who wrote it.
    Jack Spirko

    Check out "the site" on the African House Snake - and get a free copy of "The Reptile Book", by Raymond L. Ditmars.

    Find stuff you won't find ANYWHERE ELSE! Social Networking at HaterOrLoved


    Spammers are scum! If I had my way they would all get reincarnated as feeder mice!

  8. #8
    Registered User MechWarrior's Avatar
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    Re: bull snakes

    Quote Originally Posted by jjspirko
    First, you are correct Bulls are netorious for going off feed regardless of how warm you keep them and simply doing a standard chilled burmation is probally the easiest thing to do with them.

    Second, I am not trying to be a jerk here but loose the attitude. Yes Chris is a well known and respected author and I own several of his books. Yet just because any author says anything does not make it "true", what it means is it has been true for him or her in their climate and with the lines they have worked with.

    Chris is in the UK which has a very defined photo period which will lead to more of a need for animals like bulls to burmate. By the way snakes DO NOT hibernate they burmate.

    Not all bull snakes are the same either. This is a species that ranges from northern Mexico to southern Canada to make any blanket statement about the habits of such a species is not possible. Do you really think a Crumbly or Ginter Red Bull (those are well known bull snake breeders) from Central Texas will behave the same as say a line native to central Kansas?

    I do not know what you are trying to prove but you posted a quite arguementive follow up to your OWN POST. What are you trying to prove here? The first person that would tell you that you simply can't apply absolutes to a species as diverse as a bull snake is Chris himself. I also don't know what you think a DVM is going to do to "keep it awake". I have seen specificly wild caught bulls kept warm, stay awake and still fast for 80-120 days.

    Carl Kauffeld who was a well known author long before Chris, I and deffinitely you were born noted the same observations in "The Keeper and the Kept" and he also noted in "Snakes and Snake Hunting" that bulls from southern regions were less prone to this.

    So do I sound like a "know-it-all" if so I am sorry but this response is to your attitude. I would suggest if you want to get along try to have some level of humility here. These are good people in this forum and God knows I have had my share of disagreements and debates but when you insult someone before they even speak, when you show the attitude you have in response to yourself, well that is probably not the best way to win friends and make yourself heard.

    I would also point out that MANY of the people here have decades of working with snakes and other herps behind them as well. Consider this please and feel free to present your view and opinions but again you don't need to bring an attitude with you.

    If you think I am to harsh take a second and go read your own post as though it was someone else who wrote it.
    Man, I'm surprised this website doesn't have a word limit. OT: I wasn't talking about you! Whenever I say some info on any website there's always someone who contradicts me. I did that as a precaution (and I didn't mean it towards anyone specific). P.S. It must be that in the UK they call it "hibernating" because that's what it says in TCRAIC.
    Herps I own: 0.1 Northern Brown Snake

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