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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran frankykeno's Avatar
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    Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    I've been pondering a change in the way I manage our breeder rat group. Currently we put one male with 2 or 3 females in breeder bins, once the females are pregnant we move them into individual 10 gallon tanks and the male returns to the communal male breeder enclosure. After the females wean the litters or they are fed off, the female goes into a communal female breeder enclosure to rest before going back into the breeder bin. Biggest problem I'm facing with this system, that has worked quite well thus far, is that with the growth of our snake collection I'm running short constantly on the 10 gallon tanks and they do take a lot of space. They are also too small for the females that deliver large litters once those litters are pup sized but yet unweaned.

    So I've been thinking of doing things a bit differently and would like some input.

    I'm thinking to establish permanent groups of 3 females per large, roomy tub. A certain male would be "assigned" that tub and be in there until all females are pregnant (ensuring three litters at a time born close together, which I do need to happen). Then the male would go back to the male enclosure. The three females would be left to raise their combined litters until either fed off or weaned. They would then stay in that tub for their rest period.

    The pro's I see to this are:

    Less need for some many individual tanks, saving me space and cleaning time.

    Ability for females to have a permanent social group, lessening stress and dominance scuffles when they are moved in and out of various female groups.

    Females can assist each other in raising their young so less need for me to foster out some of the larger litters.

    Good genetic control as for instance certain groupings of females would be permanently assigned a certain male (we have 6 breeding males to choose from currently) so record keeping would be simplified.

    The con's I see would be:

    Less specific genetic information about any litter as they may get mixed up between females. I'd always know who the father was....not completely sure as to the specific female that delivered them.

    Possibly of damage to pinks if the females fight over them.

    I am planning to match the female trios as closely as possible. Example would be one tub having 3 beige hooded females, another tub 3 mink self, etc. I may in fact use three sisters from a litter who closely resemble each other as the basis for each tub trio. The male (related genetically to the females) would then be assigned to a trio (or more than one trio). I'm also going to take into consideration any issues between the female rats as sometimes certain rats just cannot exist together without fights breaking out.

    So input folks please. I'd like to know what you think about this or your experiences with communal breeding colonies.
    ~~Joanna~~

  2. #2
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    The way you are planning on doing it is the way I am doing myself in the homemade rack I built, and I never had any issues, I keep 2 females per tubs and have 1 male rotating through 3 tubs spending about 2 weeks in each tubs.

    I even adopted the same practice for my mice.

    One thing I do though is any female having her first litter is isolated completely so I can see how she behave with her babies and see if there is any issue.
    Deborah Stewart


  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran frankykeno's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    Thanks Deb. That idea of isolating a first time mom is a good one...thanks! I would still have a number of 10 gallon tanks available for that sort of thing. I'm also thinking by going to communal large tubs for the trio's that my feeding/cleaning times would be more streamlined. Dumping out a lot of 10 gallon tanks takes a fair bit of work and they seem to get nastier faster than my big tubs (the glass gets nasty looking and seems to hold dirt more than the plastic does).
    ~~Joanna~~

  4. #4
    BPnet Veteran lord jackel's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    What you are thinking is very similar to how large rat breeders do it (me included). I have 12 tubs with 3 females each (like you I matched them closely to specific genetic traits). Where I differ is I only use 1 male - he stays with each tank 1 week then moves to the next tub. So he won't get back to the beginning for 12 weeks - which is enough time for the girls to give birth, ween and then get 4 weeks to rest before the male comes back.


    I also have 4 males so I can insert certain males to specific tubs (still sticking to the same time line though).

    A benefit for me is that I have 2-3 litters born every week and every week have the correct sized weened rats to feed off (any excess are kept for future breeders or sold to the local pet store)

    I have very specific breeding plans, records and timelines to make sure I don't run out any week and to keep track and breeding by tub.

    I also have 15 more tubs that are used for hospital tubs, new mom tubs, the "man" shack, ASF, grow out breeder tubs and a few special plan tubs where I put my "projects" - like breeding to get Blue Dumbos etc.
    Sean

  5. #5
    BPnet Veteran frankykeno's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    Sounds good Sean and I really thank you for your input here. Our system worked well for what it was but with 21 snakes to feed weekly and breeding plans for this year, we've simply outgrown it on several fronts.

    This is the basic concept we're looking at (please feel free to comment)....

    6 large tubs holding 3 nearly identical and possibly related females per tub (found a great plastic shelving system that would hold these big tubs perfectly and be a real space saver)

    6 males, 1 assigned per tub - 1 large bachelor pad to house these males when not breeding (I know it's a lot of males but I like genetic diversity and okay...I just like male rats LOL)...of these 6 males only 4 are really consistent breeders...1 is older and retired...1 is just a companion rat due to his genetics

    2 large tubs for weans of each gender (more tubs as needed)

    the 10 gallons to be used as quarantine/hospital type enclosures or to watch a new breeder if there's a concern over her ability to birth/mother her litter

    So you don't see a lot of issues with the females as far as dragging pinks around or that sort of thing? Do they keep 3 seperate nests or just communally nurse them? Do you find they pretty much cycle closely so the three females are delivering very close to each other? Any problems with the females fighting over the young or with each other?
    ~~Joanna~~

  6. #6
    BPnet Veteran lord jackel's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by frankykeno
    6 males, 1 assigned per tub - 1 large bachelor pad to house these males when not breeding
    Do you plan to breed all the tubs at the same time or are you going to space out the breedings? By this I mean do you plan to have all 6 tubs pregnant at the same time? I will assume if so that you plan to freeze all the excess for use later. If not you will want to monitor and track not only who is where but when the male is there so you properly space the birthings.

    So you don't see a lot of issues with the females as far as dragging pinks around or that sort of thing? Do they keep 3 seperate nests or just communally nurse them? Do you find they pretty much cycle closely so the three females are delivering very close to each other? Any problems with the females fighting over the young or with each other?
    I don't see much consistency in between my tubs. I have some groups that pile all the pinkies together and rotate who lays on them (really cute to see a big ole pile of 30-40 pinks )
    Others space out small piles of pinks (6-8 piles), while one or two tubs the mothers actually stay with just their young in seperate nests. I also have 1 tub where the girls bury all the babies in a few piles, they will unbury them to feed them then put them back. I call this tub my prissy women's group as I almost never see them just laying with the babies the girls are always off having their coffee away from the babies (but all still very good moms)

    In a given tub the moms usually give birth within a day or each other. And, no I don't see any fighting over babies.
    Sean

  7. #7
    BPnet Veteran frankykeno's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    Oh lord no I wouldn't breed them all at the same time LOL. That's way more rats being birthed than we'd need. I am actually just going to number each female tub and have a chart on the wall listing whose next in the rotation for a male "visitor". Since each tub will have that assigned males name on it...it should only be a matter of checking the list for that week, grabbing that male out of the bachelor pad and popping him in there with his ladies. That's got to be easier than managing things the way I am right now (I've sticky notes on everything or it feels that way sometimes LOL).

    I'm experimenting this week by having two sets of pregnant rats in two of these bigger tubs. I was just having a laugh at one tub where my one female mink has stolen every scrap of bedding and built this MASSIVE nest in the corner. The other poor preggo female mink is sitting on basically bare plastic looking a bit ticked off.

    HEY THAT WITCH OVER THERE STOLE ALL THE NESTING MATERIALS!!!!!!!!

    Rather funny (I added more and moved some over too....that other female does not need to build the Hoover dam in order to give birth!)
    ~~Joanna~~

  8. #8
    BPnet Veteran lord jackel's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by frankykeno

    Rather funny (I added more and moved some over too....that other female does not need to build the Hoover dam in order to give birth!)
    Yea I have 2 like that...cute at first but in the end very annoying it makes me have to clean a lot sooner than I normally would as they poop and pee on the bare plastic bottom.

    Rats...you got to love um.
    Sean

  9. #9
    BPnet Veteran Ginevive's Avatar
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    Re: Considering Changing Things With the Rat Colony

    I wuold be interested to find out how this system works if you use it. I use individual 10g tanks and they are a cinch to clean; just lift, dump, fill. periodic bleachings once a month.
    -Jen. Back in the hobby after a hiatus!
    Ball pythons:
    0.1 normal; 1.1 albino. 1.0 pied; 0.1 het pied; 1.0 banana.

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