How can a cage be too big???

[qiksilver]

Impressive. Much better than I expected by a long shot.

I would, however, be willing to bet you a large sum that my vet has at least 1000 times the documentable experience (classroom, field, etc) than you do with infections in snakes. In fact, these vets could easily make the claim that they are the most experienced (and most expensive ) exotics vets in my home city (pop over 1 million). Their office looks nicer than some clinics I've been in and, when I was there, it was packed with dogs, cats, turtles, ducks, you name it. There was a burm coming out of surgery for stomatitis and the sutures were so good all you could see was tiny hair-sized lines across its snout.

um... congratulations?

you seem to just want to prove him wrong by now, great.
back to your op, because I'm really not interested in the bickering and your self proclaimed inability to deal with social situations...
i want you to take a moment to consider that a young snake, or even a small snake is going to be a prey species, they would not want to come across open spaces where they could be spotted from above. Big cats in trees, eagles, secretary birds. Large spaces mean more opportunity to get spotted and killed. Consider this in deciding a cage, and whatever you decided, use some common sense. In a larger cage your snake will never come out and will probably not eat because it won't want to be seen out in the open. As keepers it is our duty to provide for the best health of the snake, and increasing stress is most definitely not that. You may certainly try your own things, but do it intelligently and not just to prove people wrong. Do things to benefit your charges not yourself and there will be no problem.

[bearhart]

I'm sure the place in quite impressive, and I'm sure they know what they are doing. Its just to call a RI "mild and not needing treatment" seems questionable to me. It may not need immediate medical attention, but ALL RI's need treatment or else are fatal.

OK, misunderstanding. Diagnosis was "possible mild RI" with trial oral Baytril as an initial treatment step with additional action if the infection does not respond.

[iceman25]

Ironically, I'm trying.

Definitely hats off for that.

I get flamed for giving "vet advice" yet others do it.

I would prefer to think that people are just scrutinizing your statements a little more due to the fact that you are new to the community and that you have very little experience under your belt.

I've pointed out that my vet has made some very good arguments to me for not doing an initial culture as well as using oral Baytril. Does anybody here even acknowledge that? One thing that they pointed out was that there was not conclusive evidence that oral Baytril does not work, and that they had positive experiences with it. They also pointed out that there are some significant side effects to injections which include risk of necrosis in the muscle tissue as well as increased pain for the animal (which is certiainly true). In addition, they provided me with a nice long printout from a vet's forum on the issue to back it up.

Point taken and acknowledged. The bottom line is whom you choose to believe. I used to be involved in ball python rescues a couple of years ago and I have lost a couple due to the Vet telling me to not do the cultures or administer the Baytril. Maybe your Vet is a lot more competent with reptiles than a lot of those who mainly see your everyday dogs and cats.

Personally, I choose to believe the cumulative experience of some of the top breeders in the world(they frequent our forums by the way) over the advice of an "average" Vet any day. And I say this because these folks keep ball pythons worth over millions of dollars and they employ the services of some of the best herp vets in the region.

The combined experience of these breedear with ball pythons itself can top several decades, exclusively! That has to mean something, empirical evidence provided or not. It just boils down to if you can swallow what's being offered.

No. I got things like "Injections are the only way to go." etc. Who's flaming those people for giving vet advice?????

Once again, I would prefer the term "extra scrutiny." You yourself mentioned that you get terse under argumentative circumstances. So try not to get too offended if that is a two way street.

[bearhart]

Ironically, I'm prepared to watch my snake squirm in pain through four more injections based largely on the advice from the people here - and contrary to the opinion of my vet. All the while they bash me for not listening.

[bearhart]

Definitely hats off for that.



I would prefer to think that people are just scrutinizing your statements a little more due to the fact that you are new to the community and that you have very little experience under your belt.



Point taken and acknowledged. The bottom line is whom you choose to believe. I used to be involved in ball python rescues a couple of years ago and I have lost a couple due to the Vet telling me to not do the cultures or administer the Baytril. Maybe your Vet is a lot more competent with reptiles than a lot of those who mainly see your everyday dogs and cats.

Personally, I choose to believe the cumulative experience of some of the top breeders in the world(they frequent our forums by the way) over the advice of an "average" Vet any day. And I say this because these folks keep ball pythons worth over millions of dollars and they employ the services of some of the best herp vets in the region.

The combined experience of these breedear with ball pythons itself can top several decades, exclusively! That has to mean something, empirical evidence provided or not. It just boils down to if you can swallow what's being offered.



Once again, I would prefer the term "extra scrutiny." You yourself mentioned that you get terse under argumentative circumstances. So try not to get too offended if that is a two way street.

Yes and I'm prepared to be understanding. But I'm getting angry now because my snake is freaked out and undergoing alot more pain than my vet things he has to. Its all very hard to watch and its based alot on my trust of these experienced people. But, the double standard is getting hard to bear. I don't abuse my snake and my cage is, by now, almost entirely in line with what's recommended here.

[iceman25]

Its all very hard to watch and its based alot on my trust of these experienced people.

The fact is that this is an online forum which has the cumulative advice passed down from those who've been in the business for several decades. While I consider it to be golden, it's upto you, the owner of the animal to decide what to do.

If you think that your Vet is competent and knows what he/she is doing, then by all means give their opinion the respect it deserves. This is only an online forum by the end of the day. The advice passed to you comes from a total stranger sitting from behind a keyboard. I consider most of it to be solid. However, you should take it with a grain of salt and not use it as a tool for diagnosis or treatment which should be done by a "competent" vet.

It's your animal, free country, and totally your decision.

[rabernet]

So, an accomplished vet (these guys are most definately not quacks) told me it was a mild RI. Gooseman, please enlighten me as to your experience and expertise that qualifies you to say there is no such thing.

But didn't you say early on that your vet is primarily an avian vet? Do you know how many ball pythons he sees each year?

My own vet for my ball pythons has told me that he sees very few each year and has asked me to write up how I house my ball pythons so that he can hand them out to his clients, because I'm clearly doing something right, as my snakes are the healthiest he has had the pleasure of seeing and handling.

I think Raj said it best - ultimately you have to decide if the advice given here by exerperienced keepers who work with these animals day after day, week after week and year after year is good advice or not.

[Freakie_frog]

Impressive. Much better than I expected by a long shot.

I would, however, be willing to bet you a large sum that my vet has at least 1000 times the document-able experience (classroom, field, etc) than you do with infections in snakes. In fact, these vets could easily make the claim that they are the most experienced (and most expensive ) exotics vets in my home city (pop over 1 million). Their office looks nicer than some clinics I've been in and, when I was there, it was packed with dogs, cats, turtles, ducks, you name it. There was a burm coming out of surgery for stomatitis and the sutures were so good all you could see was tiny hair-sized lines across its snout.

And yet you are caring for the snake not your vet. I have no doubt that your vet has great experience diagnosing problems in animals. The issue seems to have gotten skewed. Yes your vet has given you some great advice and treatment for clearing up your "possible RI". But again this thread is about the size of the enclosure being a detriment to its health.With that said I would be will to be you one years pay that your vet has less than 1/10 the experience hours or days or years of the combined experience of actuality keeping these animals as the combine experience of the people here.

If you want a big impressive display enclosure, Wonderful, Great,
Get an Emerald Tree Boa.

[bigballs]

We have had some experienced keepers report success with larger enclosures in this very thread.

it is possible but obviously for you at this point and time in your bp keeping career its not...

just fix your enclosure.

please?


end of thread starting now.

[Sausage]

it is possible but obviously for you at this point and time in your bp keeping career its not...

just fix your enclosure.

please?

I think I recall you arguing about why you don't need a Tstat before you finally decided to give in and buy one. Just(as Bigballs said) stop arguing and fix the enclosure. You don't need to justify every small error you may make.