whats wrong with these guys?

[NotAnotherHonda]

here at the refuge,we have 2 land turtles here (boxes maybe?) that both are having similar problems. if only 1 was having it, ide think it was a problem that was limited to only that one. but now it looks like its catching on. is the shell turning this way because of a deficiency of some sort? maybe because of no uvb light? no heat lamps? have yall seen this stuff before? if i can get help here, i can come to the owner and ask him if we can either let them go because of this, or re-do their living conditions. thanks

[Reediculous]

looks like they are water turtles i'm not sure...........but if they are they need uvb, and a basking rock to get out of the water and dry out....if they are wet all the time they will get soft shell..........

good luck with them

[TekWarren]

If they are kept in the size of the tubs in the pictures all the time I would furious that this place calls itself a "refuge". If I'm way off...and I have been before...GOOD.

Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD): This is a condition that is the direct result of poor husbandry. It results from the effects of poor diet, poor or no uvb, lack of Vitamin D, and poor calcium to phosphorus ratio. Pyramiding is a form of MBD which research shows is the result of all of the above and lack of humidity and exercise. If the onset of MBD begins when a turtle is young, it will develop obvious deformities. Tortoises will show raised or stacked scutes on the carapace, overgrown, duck or parrot like beak and the nails will grow oddly curved out and upward. They will have splayed legs and have difficulty walking upright. Many are forced to drag their hind legs because of this difficulty.

Turtles often show early signs of MBD by their shells growing curved upward, some looking like a saddled shape. They will appear to be thickened. Box turtles will not have a working hinge, but rather have it frozen in place. Some will show signs of resorption where you will no longer see a tail because the body is trying to get the calcium from the bones. Often the turtle’s legs will be thin and deformed. As with tortoises the beak will also become duck or parrot shaped. Water turtles will usually show raised scutes, some actually also pyramiding as with tortoises. Their shells will also become serrated even if they are a species that normally has a rounded shell.

To avoid MBD it’s important to provide a nutritional diet with proper calcium and vitamin d, give proper uvb lighting (natural sun is best), plenty of exercise and humidity in the case of land turtles. Providing a cuttlebone in addition to good diet is a good way to let your turtle supplement itself with added calcium.

Reference taken from: http://www.turtlerescues.com/common_health_problems.htm

[moespeaking]

Since they both have it id say its a problem with nutrition and lighting.

[NotAnotherHonda]

thats what it is. MBD. im gonna tell him that we need to do something asap.

and yes, there tubs are that size, some smaller.

i dont get it either. im doing all i can...trust me. but im gonna lat him know monday when i go in. thanks so much for the help

[jenaero]

Good God. That is an example of exceptionally poor husbandry and downright neglect. They look to be 3toed boxies (not aquatics) with a bad case of MBD due to the reasons listed above.

[lillyorchid]

Okay... I'm really not trying to sound mean here, but are you 100% sure that you are working for an animal refuge and not an animal hoarder? I've read and seen a lot of the pictures and post you have posted about this place and I can't tell you how many alarms are going off about this place that is very very VERY far away from someone who is actually looking to care, give these animals a better, proper home.

Animal hoarders are known to take in any kind of animal, in any kind of condition and say they "rescued" it. They don't know or don't want to admit that what they are doing is wrong. They also keep their animals in whatever they can put them or keep them in... in most cases in very bad and wrong set up's. I know in your heart you are trying your best to help this place out but I'd really question them since all of the before pictures of the animals are in pretty bad shape and their husbandry is way off.

Do these people have any kind of paper work saying they are in fact a legal animal refuge?

[NotAnotherHonda]

yea ive seen paperwork sayin they are a "refuge".

we are having an inspection anytime from now until june 15th. i PRAY that we FAIL IT with flying colors. turns out the owner has had SEVERAL complaints from the inspectors and been written up for keeping animals that never needed to be kept more than a few days, or keeping them AFTER they were completely healed and ready for release.

i showed the owner the box turtle in the pics. i said "he has MBD, and so does this one and this one and this one. see their tails and how they are about to break off? they are going to die if we dont get uvb light on them asap. do you want me to build something for the lights to sit on" (we have over 20uvb lights in the back THAT ARENT IN USE AND IN WORKING ORDER!!!!!!) i cant, nor can anyone else change their conditions without his approval. He said to me "well, this guy was like this before we got him", and changed the subject and walked away.

i dont know what to do. i am losing sleep over this place. it makes me sick, and sad- a dream job has really opened my eyes to how people treat animals.


i was offered by a forum member to have PROFESSIONAL RACKS WITH FLEXWATT built and delivered FOR FREE to help out the 40+ snakes we have. the forum member, kellysballs, sent me pics of what they would build for us. i printed out the pics and brought them in cause i was SO HAPPY i was offered $700+ racks for FREE. i showed them to the owner-HE DECLINED IT! saying that he was getting rid of most of them, and the ones that we are keeping for "his collection" he wants to keep in aquariums to "show them off"!!!!!!!



i am SERIOUSLY considering calling whoever is goung to inspect this place and telling them all of whats going on- the fact that 90% of our turtles are ready for release (or WERE until we got ahold of them), the fact that snakes dont get fed but maybe once a month, the fact that not one snake/lizard/turtle/tortoise gets any heat or uvb!! i dont know what to do anymore.


sorry for the rant.

[8b8ll]

yea ive seen paperwork sayin they are a "refuge".

we are having an inspection anytime from now until june 15th. i PRAY that we FAIL IT with flying colors. turns out the owner has had SEVERAL complaints from the inspectors and been written up for keeping animals that never needed to be kept more than a few days, or keeping them AFTER they were completely healed and ready for release.

i showed the owner the box turtle in the pics. i said "he has MBD, and so does this one and this one and this one. see their tails and how they are about to break off? they are going to die if we dont get uvb light on them asap. do you want me to build something for the lights to sit on" (we have over 20uvb lights in the back THAT ARENT IN USE AND IN WORKING ORDER!!!!!!) i cant, nor can anyone else change their conditions without his approval. He said to me "well, this guy was like this before we got him", and changed the subject and walked away.

i dont know what to do. i am losing sleep over this place. it makes me sick, and sad- a dream job has really opened my eyes to how people treat animals.


i was offered by a forum member to have PROFESSIONAL RACKS WITH FLEXWATT built and delivered FOR FREE to help out the 40+ snakes we have. the forum member, kellysballs, sent me pics of what they would build for us. i printed out the pics and brought them in cause i was SO HAPPY i was offered $700+ racks for FREE. i showed them to the owner-HE DECLINED IT! saying that he was getting rid of most of them, and the ones that we are keeping for "his collection" he wants to keep in aquariums to "show them off"!!!!!!!



i am SERIOUSLY considering calling whoever is goung to inspect this place and telling them all of whats going on- the fact that 90% of our turtles are ready for release (or WERE until we got ahold of them), the fact that snakes dont get fed but maybe once a month, the fact that not one snake/lizard/turtle/tortoise gets any heat or uvb!! i dont know what to do anymore.


sorry for the rant.

Dude that is awful.

I would call someone ASAP if he is not going to do anything. Sounds like this guy has a serious pride issue.

I don't get that kind of thinking and am very troubled by what you just told me...good luck and keep us posted we are rootin for ya.


Mike

[Blu Mongoose]

You have to do what's in your heart. If you know the animals are in need of real "rescue". contact whoever necessary. It may make you uncomfortable, but it is their lives. I'm sure even if this place were closed down you will find a way to help animals elsewhere. Bad husbandry should not be tolerated. I would rather see an animal put down than suffering. If you are afraid of what will becomeof the animals, ask animal control if they will be adopted out. But keep in mind, don't let your fear keep you from reporting it. Some of the animals may be put down due to bad health, but if not reported the abuse may effect hundreds more. If it's abuse, stop it in its' tracks.