ATB feeding (or lack thereof) help

[Two Dragonz]

Hey everyone I've been keeping snakes for a while, but am new to this forum. I have a new ATB that I'm having a really difficult time getting to eat. I had posted advice request on a couple of other boards, but had little response due to lack of members with experience. Someone suggested I try here, so here I am! Anyway, my situation is this.....

I bought an ATB in early April. It's young, not sure exactly how old, but length is roughly 12-15". I have it in a medium sized KK, which seems about right for it's size. I have the setup about right I think....temp goes from dth of 85-86 to ntl of 78-80. I don't have a gradient because a) I've read these guys don't really use it and prefere there favorite "spot" regardless of temp and b) it would be hard to establish a good one in that size tank. I spray heavy in the morning and let it dry out through the day. Humidity is 90+ after spray and falls to mid 60's-low 70's at night.

The little guy acts completely normal, but has eaten only once since I've had him. He was on fuzzy mice at the pet store, so I tried that, which he took once about 2 weeks after I got him. Since then I've offered fuzzys, pinks, rat pinks. Still no luck. I feed live as I see no danger to the snake from pinks or fuzzies, and he was on live at the store. I leave them 1-2 days, remove, and offer again in another 3-4 days. As of now, it's almost 3 weeks since he last ate.

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to offer as much background as I could. My questions are a couple. First, how long before I should start to be concerned? Three weeks would not bother me for my adult ball and rtb, but this snake is much younger. Second, any tips, tricks, etc. on how to get this guy to eat?? Force feeding seems out of the question for one this small, but I guess I could try. To me though, that would be a last resort.

Any and all advice welcome! Thanks!!

[JLC]

First off...welcome to BP.net!


Second off...I have no experience with ATB's, but I can offer a few basic thoughts based simply on what I know of snakes in general. We do have some folks here with experience, but not a huge population of them...so be patient for them to log on and find your thread.

From what I've read, ATB's like a gradient...but a vertical one rather than a horizontal one that we see in most snake enclosures. Different perches at different levels, with the enclosure heat source near the top and cooler at the bottom.

You described your enclosre as a "medium sized KK"...but I have no idea what that means so can't begin to offer any suggestions based on that.

What kind of cover do you have for the snake? Maybe extra greenery around the perches would help him feel more hidden and secure? An insecure snake usually doesn't want to eat.

I would not even begin thoughts of force feeding. Besides being a very stressful and usually unnecessary technique for any snake, I understand that young ATB's are delicate snakes. No need to risk injury at this stage. Force feeding should be a last resort for a snake that has lost the ability to feed itself (not just the will to) and should always be recommended and supervised by a vet.

Most feeding issues like this are related to husbandry. So...just be willing to learn and tweak. 3 weeks isn't that long, even for a young snake. I have a cape gopher that stopped eating for 5 months while he was still very young...he suffered no ill effects from his extended fast...although I can't say the same for my frazzled-keeper-nerves. Fasting is usually far more stressful for us than it is for the snake.

[green_man]

I wish I could tell you exactly what it is, but my ATB has a huge feeding response and has never skipped a meal. (I even threw in a pinky rat once before I noticed he was in mid-shed. He grabbed it, ate it, and then finished shedding!)

Here is a question for you. Is he wild-caught?

Alot of ATB's that are not well established will want lizards or frogs. You could try scenting a pinky with an anole.

I used to work at a pet store and we had a couple ATB's that were troublesome eaters. Sometimes getting a large paper bag and putting both the snake and prey in the same bag together for a while does the trick.

anywho, I hope you figure it out... Good luck!

[Evan Jamison]

Do you know if the snake has ever eaten before, or is a non-feeding neonate? I have heard some ATB breeders having success in getting non-feeders to take a first meal by holding a pinkie mouse gently against their snout with no disturbances in the room.

~Just found the page I remember reading this on, here. Good luck.

-Evan

[Two Dragonz]

Thanks for the welcome and all the tips everyone. To follow up on some of the responses.

The Kritter Keeper I've got it in is 15" long x10" high x 8" deep. I have several branches at different levels and greenery. Plus there is a hide on the bottom. I had read that the ATB's will spend time on the ground, and this has proved true with mine.

Force feeding is definately out of the question right now. As you stated JLC, this is a very delicate snake. Unless I felt it was on the verge of death with no other options, I wouldn't even attempt this, especially at this point.


Green_man - as far as I know, he is captive bred. However, it is certainly possible that the pet store gave me bad information - you know how that can go. Like you said, I had read these guys are typically really good feeders, which is one reason why I am a bit more worried than maybe I should be at this point. I like the idea of trying snake and prey in a paper bag and may give that a try.

Evan - the snake did eat once, a fuzzy mouse. So that is encouraging to me. I've tried placing the mouse in front of the snake with tongs, even touching its snout.....it just acted like "What the h&*l are you doing?" LOL.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice!!

[JLC]

Maybe try not offering food so often. It might be stressing him out when he really still needs to settle into his home. Try waiting a full week between offerings.

Also...a 10" high enclosure sounds mighty short for an arboreal species, even a neonate. What if you turned the enclosure on its end so that it was 15" high? Of course in doing so, you'd have to give the snake a new week (at a minimum) to acclimate and get settled again. And perhaps offer a mild heat source at the top so that it's a few degrees warmer up high than it is on the floor...and see if he doesn't choose to thermoregulate.

[TekWarren]

I'm raising an ATB that is doing pretty well for me. Here some things to consider if you don't know already. ATB's have a slower metabolism I was told to be careful with neonates about over feeding as they can get bound up. I believe mine to be coming close to a year old and I feed no more than every 7 days. They are slender snakes so don't try and "fill them out". Also the size of prey and how it is offered is important as with any snake. I have had one regurge that I think was because I offered an item a little to large. I went about 10-12 days before offering again and no problem. Mine will take live prey from the floor of the enclosure but has much more interest in feeding "from the air". I get pretty much instant strike response when feeding pinkies using plastic tongs/forcepts. -I'm sorry to bring this up as I am trying to lay off but I am feeding my african soft fur pinkies/fuzzies as that is what I raise. My little guy is small and I do not use an overly large enclosure. In fact its just a tub I've outfitted with a mini-dish drying rack and entwined with fake green vine -sounds weird but it looks pretty good and works great. The room is kept at 80 consistently sometimes getting up 83 in the summer. I run a small piece of flexwatt under the ATB tub I keep below 90.

The other tips above should be helpful also. If it comes down to it I've had success with small snakes placing them in a deli containter with a pinkie and wrapped in a towel for complete darkness. I know neo ATB's this can prove tricky as they can entwine themselves and are fragile to move.