Breeding tips?

[MedusasOwl]

So, this being my first real breeding experience (and not my last, to be sure!!), naturally I have a few questions! Last year, Ma-tsu ovulated (I only knew this via the vet checkup) as their previous owner had kept the pair together year round. We kept them seperate, and she reabsorbed the eggs. Was for the best, as we're better prepared this year.

So, Neptune and Ma-tsu are having lots of fun, but how to I tell when it's time to stop and let Ma-tsu be? Is there a certain amount of time or observed breedings that folks usually go by?

I'm sure there's more questions, I'm very excited and eager to learn as much as possible! But that's all I can think of for now. Also, if anybody has pics of their hovobator set up on the inside available, I'd love to see them! I've read over the directions dozens of times, but as a visual person seeing it would be helpful.

Really, any advice or tips are welcome! Thanks!

[Evan Jamison]

Good to hear they are getting their groove on Sheree. If she didn't lay any eggs last year, slugs or otherwise, she didn't ovulate. After ovulation, all the eggs are shelled whether they are fertilized or not, and cannot be resorbed. It is likely that she had good sized follicles and resorbed them prior to ovulation for one reason or another though.

Did you brumate them this season? If so, what temp and for how long? How many copulations have you observed? Have you palpated for follicles?

-Evan

[MedusasOwl]

Thank you! And d'oh! Thank you for clearing that up for me, the vet said that she was "pregnant" (dumbing it down for me I guess? There's a lot he assumed I didn't know) and when I asked him to elaborate he said she'd been stimulated into ovulation and that they should be put together right then if I wanted to ensure a clutch. I didn't, and nothing happened.

This year, I didn't brumate them as their previous owner had successfully bred them without ever letting the temp drop under 75 degrees, so I thought I'd see what they would do for me without brumating. I witnessed their first copulation on the 25th, and between Karen and I we've witnessed at least 3 other copulations since then. They could certainly be doing more when we're not looking as well.

I haven't palpated for follicles, I'm not sure exactly what I'd be looking for and I tend to treat Ma-tsu with kids gloves when I think she may be ovulating. I don't want to accidentally hurt her or potential eggs if I don't know what I'm doing. What's the best way to go about doing that?

[Evan Jamison]

I know that they have been bred successfully without any brumation period, but sometimes male colubrids will shoot blanks without a proper cool down (65-70 for a month for VBB is pretty standard) If he is that interested in her though, you're probably OK. If you're not comfortable palpating her, just keep an eye on them (as if you're not already ) and watch for her to ovulate (large midbody swelling for a day or so). The male will show very little interest in her after ovulation also. Good luck, I hope all goes well with them in the coming months!

-Evan

[MedusasOwl]

Thanks! I'm not too worried about him shooting blanks, as he wasn't brumated last year but tested with a very high sperm count at the vet anyway at the same time Ma-tsu had her follicles. I likely will brumate them in the future though.

I'm watching them like a hawk! lol! They're going at it as I type this in fact, which I have mixed feelings about as someone pooed while I was out erranding and I want to clean it out. Oy! I do want to get comfortable palpating her. .. hmm... So Neptune will lose interest once she's more obviously gravid? I've seen gravid boas and pythons, they look like they've swallowed a football, colubrids seem more subtle to me. But I'm keeping my eyes peeled!

[Evan Jamison]

Yeah, it is tougher to tell when colubrids are gravid. They still look relatively slender, and some will eat right up until egg deposition if offered food. Occasionally males will show some interest in females even after ovulation, but soon give up after the females are just not cooperative anymore. I am a huge fan of palpation, as you can not only tell how far along the follicles are, but also how many eggs you can expect. Be cautious, but don't be too worried about hurting her or her developing follicles if you do try your hand at palpation, they are both quite resilient. I'm not sure what the average time from ovulation to egg deposition is in VBBs, but I would suspect about 45 days give or take depending on mean cage temperature. If you miss ovulation, but suspect she is gravid, just give her a nest box after the next shed, and she'll take care of the rest. I hope to see some pics of babies in the coming months, good luck!!

-Evan

[MedusasOwl]

You rock, Ethan. Thank you!

Last time, the vet counted 9 follicles. Here's hoping I'm that lucky this time. I'll give palpation a try! I'll only learn by doing, afterall. And thank you for reminding me I'll also have the shed to go by, as a tip to put in the nest box. In all my excitement, I forgot nature would have that little sign available as well!

[MedusasOwl]

Well, I had a hard time feeling anything, but she sure looks fatter to me and is in the blue today, so the incubator is fired up and nesting box put in just in case!


Thanks again! I look forward to getting more practice in follicle wise, but I figure it's better not to stress her out too much right now. *crosses fingers!*

[JLC]

Thanks again! I look forward to getting more practice in follicle wise, but I figure it's better not to stress her out too much right now. *crosses fingers!*

Very true, Sheree....If the eggs are there, they'll come out whether you know how many or not!

Gosh, I'm excited for you! And missing you and AZ so much already! And if/WHEN she lays those eggs, I'm gonna be sick that I can't come see da wee little blue worms!!

[MedusasOwl]

Thanks Judy! We're really excited as well, and wish you could be here! We wouldn't have been able to get these two home without you! I still owe you artwork for helping me get a hold of these lil blessings.