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BPnet Veteran
How many?
I have 9 baby corn and rat snakes, which all need pretty small pinkeys as this point, and one larger corn snake that is eating between fuzzies and hoppers. I want to start breeding my own mice. How many breeders do you think i would need.
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Re: How many?
1.2 or 1.3, and just freeze the litters as they get to the size you need. But don't just put the live pinks/fuzzies in the freezer... I use canned air made by Fellowes(found at WalMart). I then put the mice in a plastic ziploc bag, blow up the bag with the canned air, close bag and wait about 3-5 minutes. They will be gone by then and you can safely put them in the freezer for later.
--Becky--
?.? Normals, 1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle, 1.0 Yellow Hypo, 0.1 100% Het Butterscotch Hypo, 0.1 100% Het VPI Hypo, 0.1 100% Het Yellow Hypo, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Yellowbellies, 0.1 YB Granite, 1.0 Black Pastel, 1.0 Lemon Pastel, 0.1 50% Possible Het Banded Albino, 0.1 Spider, 1.0 Fire, 0.2 Granite
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
needing that many pinkies a handfull of females (I would do 5-6 just to have the extra) and NOT keeping them all together if you want to keep a steady flow of them. Cycle a male around a few tubs so you have more control of what females are pregnant and when.
As for using canned air to euthanize pinkies rather than just suffoction/freezing I would say the latter would be faster and less stressfull on their bodies and internal organs. I use canned air alot as I work on computers every day and it contains difluoroethane or freon which is what idiot kids (and some adults) are using inapropriately to get high. It can cause frost bite, brain damage, central nervous system damage, and other things that I'm not sure I want my reptiles food items subject to. I'm no chemist so maybe this wouldn't happen but if any of this chemical where maintain presence in your pinkies you could potentially harm your snakes.
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
i was thinking along the lines of 2-1.3 colonies (i guess i was about right, lucky guess), and freezing as they hit the size i want. I was planning on probably gassing with CO2 (i already have a paintball tank with a faucet type valve on it). Also, how long does it normally take for a colony to start producing?
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Re: How many?
I've never had issues with the canned air, the pinks and fuzzies, and sometimes adult rats when they need euthanasia, all just go to sleep without a struggle. No frostbite, no brain damage, they just go to sleep very similarly to when you euthanize them with CO2. I can't get that or dry ice(economically) here, so I use that method. My corn snakes are just fine and have been for the year I've been doing this.
Simply freezing the rodents will cause alot of stress. They will urinate and defecate on themselves, creating a fun mess you have to wash off of them so they don't stick together(and you'll have to break them apart, which IMO is a bit unnecessary).
If you have access to CO2 or dry ice, wonderful, but I sure don't. So this is what I use and it works great.
I have a very large mouse colony, probably containing over 150 mice. I keep track of who is a good mom, who produces large litters, what male I placed in with what females, how fast the babies grow in comparison to other litters the same age. I choose future breeders based on how big they are, how their mother's mothering skills were, etc. Usually gives me a nice turnout. I use them to feed my 8 Ball Pythons and 2 Corns(and sometimes a pink or two for the White's Tree Frog).
Generally, with mice, the male should be left in. If he is constantly removed and placed back in with other females, they can possibly kill him or he can get aggressive with the females. I find leaving them together gets better production, and good sized litters(12-15 normally). 1.2-1.3 can be housed in a 10g tank or a 20long. Kiln-dried pine, dust-free shavings(fine shaved) is what I use, and if the male cages start to smell(which mine don't unless only one male is being kept in that cage), baking soda mixed into the bedding helps alot. The room my colony is kept in smells of bedding and lab blocks, not of mouse urine.
As to how long it takes for a colony to get started up; could be a month, or could be 3 months, you never really know. I don't recommend buying already pregnant mice, they are usually already stressed from the pet store housings and are likely to kill off that first litter. Buying fairly young females, and young males helps ensure they will get along and readily breed.
--Becky--
?.? Normals, 1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle, 1.0 Yellow Hypo, 0.1 100% Het Butterscotch Hypo, 0.1 100% Het VPI Hypo, 0.1 100% Het Yellow Hypo, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Yellowbellies, 0.1 YB Granite, 1.0 Black Pastel, 1.0 Lemon Pastel, 0.1 50% Possible Het Banded Albino, 0.1 Spider, 1.0 Fire, 0.2 Granite
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
thanks for the baking soda idea, hadnt heard that one before, but it makes sense. Also, I had about the same thoughts on moving males around. I know in the other colonies at school they keep them together full time and actually had quite a bit of trouble trying to get some new males introduced a while back (the lines were getting a little inbred, litters were getting smaller, etc.) because the females were goin nuts on em. They keep 1.2 or 1.3 in small lab type tubs with metal lids that are probably about the size of a shoe box. The smell does get rather strong in there though, so i will probably go with 10 gallon tanks.
I bet if you check around, there is a paintball store somewhere near you (often as part of an army surplus store) where you could buy a tank for between 20 and 50 bucks depending on size and one of those valves for about 20. The tanks cost around 4-5 to fill, and id say one tank would last a long time for gassing. If i ran my numbers right, that should be around 980 cubic feet of co2 in a 20 oz tank (which i think is usually around 30 or 40 bucks) but ill double check that tomorrow when im not so tired.
Last edited by piranhaking; 10-06-2006 at 01:05 AM.
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
Originally Posted by piranhaking
I bet if you check around, there is a paintball store somewhere near you (often as part of an army surplus store) where you could buy a tank for between 20 and 50 bucks depending on size and one of those valves for about 20. The tanks cost around 4-5 to fill, and id say one tank would last a long time for gassing. If i ran my numbers right, that should be around 980 cubic feet of co2 in a 20 oz tank (which i think is usually around 30 or 40 bucks) but ill double check that tomorrow when im not so tired.
thats exactly what i do, and for the cost of the CO2 i like it, i want to move my snakes to frozen, but they only eat live or prekilled, so i stick to the prekill. Besides, you could always gas more than one animal at a time and package them if thats an option. I don't know about that gas thing other people were talking about, but if people use it to get high and the rodent breathes it in it would seem to me that some would stay in the lungs, which is then passed into the snake. CO2 since it is natural for the snake to produce during respiration, the body is accustom to expelling the gas and not absorbing any of it so, no ill effects to the snake!
The be sure to get a hose (or as paintball stores call them remotes) with a valve you can twist on and off so that you don't waste the air all at once.Hope this helps
~mike
“The richest value of wilderness lie not in the days of Daniel Boone, nor even in the present but rather in the future.” - Aldo Leopold
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
My experiences with moving males has been different. I've had no problems moving a male between small groups of 2 or 3 females.
As for using the freon to euthanize...I'm not telling anyone one way or another I'm just saying that knowing whats in those cans is not something I want to subject my reptiles to. *IF* there where trace ammounts in the rodents you use it on even in one years use you may not see side affects, it could take longer. Again I'm not saying its right or wrong do what works for you. Generally I am only freezing pinkies and not anything larger as I to feed strictly pre-killed. I've never had pinkies that lasted much more than a minute in the freezer, its fast and efficient...for me. And I also never have "messes" in the baggies I use.
No offenses ment just stating my experience and oppinions.
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Re: How many?
Becky, i work with freon almost daily. there are so many chemnicals, i can't list,spell, or pronounce them. i would be a little worried ,using freon on the rodents.
just my thoughts
vaughn
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BPnet Veteran
Re: How many?
Thanks for you input, I'm very cautious when it comes to using any sort of chemical near any of my animals.
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