infuriated by kids

[shhhli]

rant:

just because you pay 100 or 1000 dollars on a dog does NOT under ANY circumstance mean you have ANY right breeding that animal. I do not care how much anyone wants to drag their feet about it you go take your sorry tail to a shelter and look at all the dogs that someone felt they had the right to breed. OH THIS JUST PISSES ME OFF TO NO END

if you are 17 years old you are no dog expert i dont care how long you've had a breed around you- unless you spend years examining these dogs and know them -inside- and out, and can make very good assumptions as to which puppies will make the best 'show dog quality' then do everyone and your animals a favor and take them to the clinic to get spayed or neutered. simply because you 'know' a few things about a breed and by chance have a pretty female and a nice male does NOT mean they are compatable.

a lot of people do not realize that almost always a breeder will not own the dame and sire of a litter- usually just the dame. why? because 1 it is very hard to decern how a pup will even be of show quality when you purchase it! to find someone who is lucky enough to have bought two animals that balance each other out physically, emotionally, and internally is like the lottery! to breed you need to fully assess your animals and make note of what you like, dont like, want stronger and want less of for EVERY animal. THEN, ONLY THEN do you begin the search for a dog that matches up every single one of your dogs faults. you need a yin and yang.

also- both dogs are going to need checkups for the perfect bill of health. boxers need several tests that total in thousands of dollars just to make sure their heart, hips, and glands are in check- the only reason some of these pups are as expensive as they are is because the breeders are trying to recoup from their losses! only for the desire to produce outstanding quality for show and at home and better the breed do they breed- not just for the 'love of the breed' and because 'mindy would make such cute puppies'.
if you are serious about breeding dogs one day- do not fool yourself and think you'll get an roi in breeding like you can snakes.

its just not done. these people that breed and get money back; back yard breeder.

and i say this while knowing family and friends that continue to breed.

/endrant

[Ginevive]

Wouldn't this then mean that no one should be breeding BPs for their coloration/morph production? There are many, many (mostly male normal) BPs at rescues and humane shelters. I don't see how one can say it is OK to breed one type of animal for profit, and not another.
Sure, there are thousands of horses at rescues, unwanted, and many go for slaughter; but if I were interested in improving a breed, I would breed to do that. Talk to horse rbeeders, anywhere, who strive for perfection in their breed, and they'll say the same thing. It is the same thing with dog breeds.
I don't really agree with the age thing either; anyone, at any age, can partake in irresponsible breeding of animals.. a 17 year old that's been in the biz their whole life can know more than a 30 year old who just started.

[shhhli]

Wouldn't this then mean that no one should be breeding BPs for their coloration/morph production? There are many, many (mostly male normal) BPs at rescues and humane shelters. I don't see how one can say it is OK to breed one type of animal for profit, and not another.
Sure, there are thousands of horses at rescues, unwanted, and many go for slaughter; but if I were interested in improving a breed, I would breed to do that. Talk to horse rbeeders, anywhere, who strive for perfection in their breed, and they'll say the same thing. It is the same thing with dog breeds.
I don't really agree with the age thing either; anyone, at any age, can partake in irresponsible breeding of animals.. a 17 year old that's been in the biz their whole life can know more than a 30 year old who just started.

no, i'm not saying that- i actually mentioned that on another thread that you wont get an roi like you will in snakes. there will always be poor snake breeders as there will always be poor dog breeders- what ticks me off esp with dog breeders is that so many know so little. with snakes, its usually either inbreeding or poor husbandry that leads to a poor snake- with dogs, you can breed two unrelated dogs of the same pedigree and still wind up with a very poor animal due to hip, thyroid, heart, glands, and god knows how many other possiblities.
imo is much more different for someone to want to breed dogs than snakes because soo much should be done before considering. so many people think that because they have a girl dog and a boy dog and they're both rotties or dobes or chihuahuas they can breed them and have little care as to whether or not their animals are even fully heatlthy or not- take my cousin, he did all the work he could in choosing the right females and even hunted down a very nice male boxer. these are beautiful animals and even my picky boxer tastes would have loved a pup from them. sad news? he just found out his stud has a heart murmur.
i don't see much of this happening with snakes other than bug-eyes or spinning heads. but then again i dont know all the inheritable vices of snakes either.

from what ive seen with most responsible dog breeders, like my friend's mother who occasionally maybe but hardly ever breeds her show whippets, i think after about 30 years with dogs she's bred two or three litters tops.
she's not making money off her dogs via breeding, but the shows they attend.

a key that i cannot state enough: dog breeders if they do it right and test for every possible vice of that dog most likely will not make money breeding. they make it in shows. now i do not know all the breeds obviously and im sure some you can depending on how fresh the blood lines are. but boxers? if you find a good boxer breeder that is making a considerable roi; run for the hills.

as for the kid- they just have had the dogs. no show side experience. nothing. now- if you've been showing and handling dogs since you were six and know the breed inside and out- that's a whole 'nother animal.

[frankykeno]

Far as I can see your real concern is about irresponsible breeding. That's not determined by age really. I would bet that most bad backyard breeders/puppy mills are run primarily by adults who ought to know better but don't care. I think a good breeder whether they own a kennel or are a smaller home based breeder can be any age as long as they know their breed and make responsible decisions for the proposed puppies. Bad breeders can be any age too. We see that here in this forum...excellent, concerned owners/breeders of snakes that are of all ages...and idiots of all ages. It's really not fair to bring age into something that isn't all that influenced by the years you have on this earth.

[shhhli]

The mention about the kid was after reading the most retarded back water byb ideas of some idiot still in school, yes.

Other than that- I agree with stated.
How it is people can be so callous to breed and not know the possible and likely problems they're putting into those unborn pups saddens me above all else because of what it will mean then and down the road.

[frankykeno]

Sometimes people do it because they see the dollars signs of $500+ for a purebred pup (depending on breed). Sometimes they do it out of supposed "love" for the breed. Sometimes just because they can't bother to spay or neuter their dogs and end up with a litter they never planned on (how you cannot know you will end up with pups when you own an unfixed breeding age adult still boggles my mind though).

Actually what makes me mad and has for years is the effect show judges have had on destroying some great breeds. Give the first places to GSD's with very small hips for enough years and gee now we have a whole breed riddled with hip issues. Reward Boston Terriers that have the super boxy heads, now you can hardly find a breeder that will even allow the female to free whelp because the chances are these oversized heads on her pups will not allow a normal birth. Purebreed after purebreed with epilepsy, higher risks of cancer, etc. from far too much inbreeding, the list just goes on. Breeders that breed solely for that perfect show look (and judges that consistently reward that) without real concern for the intelligence, stable temperment, genetic health, etc. of the breed....that what makes me nuts.

Anyway, whatever the reason the fact is people can be very stupid on occasion and there's no way to stop them. Humanity's been doing stupid things for eons of time and will continue to do so. I think it's part of our genes LOL.

[Jeanne]

I would not say I am mad about kids who breed.. cause age makes no difference to me...

however, I will say, there is a particular breeder of St. Bernards in Indiana, whom I purchased a lovely St. from as a pup.... the breeder swore to me her dogs were pen hip certified, etc... yes, I saw the paperwork even. So I figured I was getting a St. that would be free of hip dysplasia...... yeah right not the case. By the time Goliath was 4 months old, I noticed an issue with his hips, but figured I was being paranoid..by the time he was 6 months, he had full blown hip dysplasia which meant he needed hip replacements and was already in terrible pain, and even more surgery if there were complications, ending result could have been a dog with fused hips, etc... the initial surgery was $5000.00 for both hips.... an amount I could not afford, muchless should not have had to think about spending to save this dog.... after contacting the breeder, even though she gauranteed his hips... her grand idea was exactly this word for word..."put him to sleep and I will replace him from my newest coming litter from the same parents". She did not care that he was part of our family, and we loved him, he was just a commodity to be replaced to her. Sadly, after reading her guest book on her site, before it was taken down, I contacted those who signed her guest book online that got pups from the same litter as mine came from... out of 13 pups, all but 4 had hip dyplasia by the age of 6 months to different severities. I also found out, her dogs were pen hip certified, however, it was done too young so it was inaccurate on her dogs, as pen hip certs are done around or after 18 months of age, and even older depending on some breeders. And it is reccommended to do so on a dog one intends to breed well before to make the person aware of hip issues before hand. It has been over 4 years now, Goliath was euthanized after he rejected his hip implants, and his hips had to be fused. I did not feel that anyway for any animal to live, esp. at under 1 year old... his life would have been long, painful and sad otherwise. Cost of dog= #500.00 + hip replacements=$5000.00 + hip fusing surgery=another $1500.00... plus another $2000.00 in meds and aftercare stuff + a final $75 to euthanize him = $9075.00 st. who now lives across rainbow bridge.... no I do not regret putting all that cash into Goliath, the love and companionship he gave me in the time he was with me was well worth that and then some.... but I do regret the breeder cared so little to breed two parent dogs to create pups doomed for hip dysplasia and a potential lifetime of suffering.

[shhhli]

That just kills me, I've read similar stories- the worst by far was about a young dog that was rough housing with one a little younger than it and the younger pup knocked him over. Blood started running out of his mouth and nose and when they took him to the vet they found out he was riddled with tumors with the vet stating that his liver looked like a whale with barnicles...
the woman who owned the stud never had her dog checked and had to put him down due to mass tumors also.

i also agree i'm not crazy about some purebred dogs and what the akc has done- wasnt it the bichon(sp) that when inducted only had .. 10 or 20 animals and all bichons(sp) for a while were from those few only. talk about horrible genetics.

i think i was mostly rilled up because of that kid for his outlandish stupidity. he's planning on breeding a female back to her dad eventually. yet he wants to be a great breeder eventually. that's the way to go! inbreeding!

[ladywhipple02]

Can I say, from the viewpoint of what some would still consider a "kid"---and yes, I still consider myself as such, too---to please not lump us all together. We are not all irresponsible half-wits, I assure you.


I agree, however, that there are many, many people out there that can be considered as such, whether they're 15 or 50.

[shhhli]

Okay, i should have posted this becase now im a bit irritant someone give me a bad rep for something like this

A kid ticked me off for saying the stupidest things about breeding dogs and the like i have ever heard in my life. I find it a little rude i got bad rep for that when i had stated it. Its called reading; try doing it before you mark someone.