Feeder Euthanasia the Easy Way, and Humane too...

[mainbutter]

My biggest problem with this thread is the absolute trust some people seem to put in the AVMA.

They aren't god.

[xxTYLERxx]

I think I also stated why I feel it necessary to point people to the use of dry ice. I reach an international audience, and not everyone has the means to buy canisters of CO2.

Sorry about the John/Tyler mixup....sometimes I use my middle name John.

So what you're saying is, if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, go ahead and use inappropriate equipment and use a method not condoned by veterinarians because it is not specifically written as inhumane.

I have a better idea.....if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, don't euthanize mice!!! I know you probably think this is a ridiculous idea.

Tyler

[xxTYLERxx]

My biggest problem with this thread is the absolute trust some people seem to put in the AVMA.

They aren't god.

Why wouldn't you trust what they say? Do you have reason not to trust them just because they are not God? Don't you think they're the best we've got when it comes to something as important as humane euthanasia? Who would you trust in this matter----a breeder or pet shop owner?

[JeffJ]

Sorry about the John/Tyler mixup....sometimes I use my middle name John.

So what you're saying is, if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, go ahead and use inappropriate equipment and use a method not condoned by veterinarians because it is not specifically written as inhumane.

I have a better idea.....if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, don't euthanize mice!!! I know you probably think this is a ridiculous idea.

Tyler

Would you give it up already. seriously. either agree to disagree or just stop talking if you cannot.

bottom line is 99% of the people here find this method to be easy and humane. every one is entitled to there opinion. and thats what this is your opinion. its not fact that its inhumane i have yet to see it in writing. and inhumane is identified when some one said INHUMANE. not "not recommended"

now stop posting your same opinion worded differently every other post. Id like to ready comments that have some input on the subject in the origional post. not some ones opinion based on the method.

start a new thread if you wish to argue till your blue in the face and users who wish to partake in it can post in that thread. other wise please.... lay off.

[littleindiangirl]

Why wouldn't you trust what they say? Do you have reason not to trust them just because they are not God? Don't you think they're the best we've got when it comes to something as important as humane euthanasia? Who would you trust in this matter----a breeder or pet shop owner?

Frankly Tyler/John, your continued belligerence is testament to your ignorance of the use of dry ice as a means to euthanize.

Labs have been using dry ice for decades, and it is still considered by quite a few boards (as in group of people assembled to discuss laboratory guidelines, much like the AVMA) to be an acceptable alternative to compressed gas.

The AVMA is not law, nor do people that work in these fields consider it as such, however it is well respected, but not the final judgment on what is considered acceptable!

I really suggest before you continue to blubber about; that you do research about euthanasia and exactly why or how dry ice is rated for use as an inhalant.

I suggest for starters you begin with the IACUC handbook.

If you can find some references that do not directly quote the AVMA guidelines, you will quickly learn that using dry ice is still considered humane, and is in continued use in scientific circles around the world.

[xxTYLERxx]

Connie,

I want you to know that I have been a lurker on this website oftentimes, however I have posted quite infrequently. And most of my posts are on this thread because of my principled beliefs in humane euthanasia.

We have both said, I believe, everything that could possibly be said regarding this subject. We are at an impasse though we both agree on the following:

1. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as humane, but written as an acceptable form of euthanasia.....I and many others will continue to use a canister to administer CO2.

2. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as inhumane, but written as an unacceptable form of euthanasia.....many others will use dry ice to administer CO2.

I personally would rather use the acceptable form of euthansia over the unacceptable form of euthanasia.

Tyler

[littleindiangirl]

Connie,

I want you to know that I have been a lurker on this website oftentimes, however I have posted quite infrequently. And most of my posts are on this thread because of my principled beliefs in humane euthanasia.

We have both said, I believe, everything that could possibly be said regarding this subject. We are at an impasse though we both agree on the following:

1. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as humane, but written as an acceptable form of euthanasia.....I and many others will continue to use a canister to administer CO2.

2. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as inhumane, but written as an unacceptable form of euthanasia.....many others will use dry ice to administer CO2.

I personally would rather use the acceptable form of euthansia over the unacceptable form of euthanasia.

Tyler

Tyler, while I am not trying to claim I will be able to read every source on the use of dry ice, I will do quite a bit of my own research on it, and have already started.

That being said, I will finish my article exactly as I intend to, and I will list all of my sources, which I have already begun to list as I compile more information about using CO2 from canisters AND dry ice.

When complete (and I really have no time line at this point in time), I urge you to follow the trails I have been down; honestly read and ask yourself if you still believe the methods I encourage are still completely unacceptable or incontrovertibly inhumane.

I do feel you will be surprised.

[xxTYLERxx]

Connie,

I will definitely be doing some more research on this matter. I feel of all threads on this forum, this thread is closest to my heart because I believe all animals should be treated in a humane way. And with that said, they should not be made to suffer needlessly just for the sake of convenience and to save a few dollars.

Be well,

Tyler

[xxTYLERxx]

Connie,

BINGO!!!!

According to page 3 of the AVMA (AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION) GUIDELINES ON EUTHANASIA (JUNE 2007), it is clearly written that "unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions....." and this includes dry ice.


......... And unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions or that the panel found posed a substantial risk to the human applying the technique.


You have stated repeatedly that dry ice is considered unacceptable with no mention of it being inhumane, therefore, you assumed (deduced) dry ice is a humane method of euthanasia.

I did more research and found that dry ice is inhumane and my hope is that everyone here that uses dry ice to stop doing so because the AVMA clearly states that it is an inhumane method of euthanasia.

I would like to see you let others here and on your website know that they should no longer use dry ice because it is considered inhumane by the AVMA.

Tyler

[littleindiangirl]

Yet again, I don't see where this implys that dry ice is inhumane. Perhaps it could pose a risk to the human...

What you've written is not saying that unacceptable techniques are automatically inhumane, but that inhumane techniques are not acceptable.

unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions

...those methods DEEMED inhumane. When was the use of dry ice deemed inhumane exactly?

Again, I don't see where there is such a definitive line like you continue to berate us with.

And no, I will present everything on my website like I intend to. Until you can answer these questions, I still stand by what I have said.

I again suggest you slow down and read everything I have posted here. I think it is satisfactorily answered your repeated questions, yet you have not attempted to answer mine.

1. Where does the text say it is not humane? Have they listed reasons why?

2. Can you find concrete proof that the dry ice sublimation creates too little CO2 to fall within the guidelines of the AVMA article, or that the use of prefilling a container with CO2 from dry ice is also not within the guidelines?

3. Where in the text have they left any other forms of inhumane euthanasia without the text explicitly saying it is inhumane?