How Low?

[Sputnik]

I think MKR dumping like they did just goes to show that it's not just the Jimmy's anymore! And right now the focus may be on MK and lets kill them, but what if next month another well known breeder decides to dump a few clutches? Then what?

It takes but "one" to start a domino effect!

[Wild Bill]

I guarantee I won't buy a thing from him. The way he is producing clowns that will be the next snake he decides to drop and "blowout". I hope anyone going to Daytona is going to tell him to "get bent".

[cueball]

It takes but "one" to start a domino effect!

I do not predict this will happen at all. I know the major players that have been around for a while and they are all very smart and savvy in their own respects. They are where they are today because they have a broad vision and the stability to rough the storms, regardless of how frequent or horrendous these storms may be.


Long live python regus

[ssscales]

another jimmy category is needed! lol "Big Jimmy" the first Big Jimmy has come out of the closet! lol.


they can get new morphs anyone with 40,60,100k can do it. the importers will sell it to anyone. the biggest point with me is their past customers, they bent them over pretty roughly. the ones that paid 3-4 times that price last year are probably pretty upset with them now? what are your customers opinions and goals worth to you? i personally would try to help any of my customers out and help them be as successful as possible. success will breed success and further sales. i will only buy from people that will support my hobby and goals!!!

prices drops , supply and demand, etc. 50-75% price cuts in less than 6 months is plain bs... oil doesn't move that much, gold,diamonds,etc. hell real estate in lebanon hasn't dropped that much and it's getting bombed right now! my thoughts


vaughn

But, how long can you hold out at $10,000 when almost every one on the internet (small and a few established) are selling at $5000 or $2500? How long can you hold out at $5000 when every one else on the internet (small and big) is at $1000?

How will you alone or 2-3 breeders help those who bought and how long will buyers buy from you at those price differences? It was one thing when comparing no named sellers to established breeders. Now you have one tomorrow 2-3-5 established breeders selling not only at hundreds, but thousands below you?

Is there no stop to this?

[Sputnik]

I do not predict this will happen at all. I know the major players that have been around for a while and they are all very smart and savvy in their own respects. They are where they are today because they have a broad vision and the stability to rough the storms, regardless of how frequent or horrendous these storms may be.


Long live python regus

Yes they are smart, but there are those under them that wont hold out.... and a lot of them. Pastels went from a good price to dirt in 5 mins.

[ssscales]

I guarantee I won't buy a thing from him. The way he is producing clowns that will be the next snake he decides to drop and "blowout". I hope anyone going to Daytona is going to tell him to "get bent".

If only everyone thought this way, but most buyers whether they admit it or not will take $5000 or $1000 in their pockets over supporting a market that is overrun by people trying to simply make a buck!

As for MK not being able to get their hands on any new morphs now. They can simply ask any Jimmy to buy it for them and if you think any breeder is going to turn away $20,000 or $40,000, I'd like to see that!

I think if any one person can possibly make a dent in this situation it's Jeff Berringer!

[shhhli]

I'm kind of afraid when people start getting greedy with recessives and crossing homozygous x homozygous sibs left and right and don't outcross their bloodlines. Now we're talking about quality issues. Co-doms are generally strong because they are crossed with normals so often. You could see a bunch of weak albinos, kinked caramels, etc. I could see overall quality decreasing. Do any of you think a breeder looking to make quick cash with a pair of albinos or caramels or pied cares about the bloodline at all? Tell me then....would you buy from Jimmy, MKR, or someone better?

If corn snakes have been inbred as many as 13 generations that i have read with no ill effects and pythons being one of the oldest and 'least evolved' creatures in their respects- i highly doubt that any immediate side-effects from sibxsib breedings will occur any time soon.
These are reptiles, not mammals.
.02$ ya'll.

[kavmon]

do you think everyone sells low? do you think rdr,vpi,nerd,tsk,bhb got to their level by low-ballin and stabbing their customers? there is a market for quality,customer service, and most of all trust! i know, i have paid more for some animals for it. if you are looking at investing, do you invest in someone known for "dumping"? if everyone follows suit, then we are all dumb and should have to wear "jimmy" dunse hats! lol. time will tell, the severe drop lends to a little unstability, the timing of the drop, lends to a plan/agenda? not everyone needs to sell so bad either! alot depends on if you look at things from an investment view or just a pet view. to me several thousands is a little more than a pet for the family.



vaughn

[Mendel's Balls]

I'm kind of afraid when people start getting greedy with recessives and crossing homozygous x homozygous sibs left and right and don't outcross their bloodlines. Now we're talking about quality issues. Co-doms are generally strong because they are crossed with normals so often. You could see a bunch of weak albinos, kinked caramels, etc. I could see overall quality decreasing. Do any of you think a breeder looking to make quick cash with a pair of albinos or caramels or pied cares about the bloodline at all? Tell me then....would you buy from Jimmy, MKR, or someone better?

If corn snakes have been inbred as many as 13 generations that i have read with no ill effects and pythons being one of the oldest and 'least evolved' creatures in their respects- i highly doubt that any immediate side-effects from sibxsib breedings will occur any time soon.
These are reptiles, not mammals.
.02$ ya'll.

Last time I checked the basic rules of genetics are no different for reptiles than they are for mammals

"Bloodred Cornsnakes are a line-bred (euphemism for inbred) line of Cornsnakes notorious for producing small hatchings which are difficult to start feeding. Patternless Leopard Geckos are well known for a lack of fertility in males. These are just two well known examples.

Perhaps more common is simply a general lack of vitality which increases with each successive generation. This is exactly what happened with the Bloodred Cornsnakes mentioned earlier. Early in the development of this beautiful morph, breeders selected stocks based on appearance through successive generations. This had the desired effect of producing more and more attractive snakes by reducing the number of alleles which had a counterproductive effect on appearance and increasing the number which had a positive effect. Sadly, this same concentration of alleles had the opposite effect on the hatchlings' desire to accept rodents as first meals."

Full link is here

That's why reputable breeders oubreed every once and awhile. Zoos try do this all the time with populations experiencing inbreeding form bottleneck effects.

[shhhli]

Last time I checked the basic rules of genetics are no different for reptiles than they are for mammals

"Bloodred Cornsnakes are a line-bred (euphemism for inbred) line of Cornsnakes notorious for producing small hatchings which are difficult to start feeding. Patternless Leopard Geckos are well known for a lack of fertility in males. These are just two well known examples.

Perhaps more common is simply a general lack of vitality which increases with each successive generation. This is exactly what happened with the Bloodred Cornsnakes mentioned earlier. Early in the development of this beautiful morph, breeders selected stocks based on appearance through successive generations. This had the desired effect of producing more and more attractive snakes by reducing the number of alleles which had a counterproductive effect on appearance and increasing the number which had a positive effect. Sadly, this same concentration of alleles had the opposite effect on the hatchlings' desire to accept rodents as first meals."

Full link is here

That's why reputable breeders oubreed every once and awhile. Zoos try do this all the time with population experiencing inbreeding form bottleneck effects.

Sweet Thanks.
(some how i knew if i had any response to that it would be from you ;D )
EDIT:Though i would say it is much more different than the severities that can come from inbreeding mammals, a vitality to eat is different from say a dog that has problems with say the heart or its nervous system due to crossing between siblings or back to parents. But in the end, both could insue death