Feeding/growth?

[ssscales]

My female BP's came in around the end of January, they weighed between 225-325g. I've been feeding them one rat pup every 6-7 days since they came in. Just recently I moved the 400g+ BP's from rat pups up to weaned rats. They've eaten like clockwork and only 2 have skipped a meal in the 10 weeks I've had them with me.

Most have gained an average 100-120g in the 10 weeks I've had them and are currently between 315-448g. They all shed in one piece and most defecate every 1-2 weeks on average.

Is this ok, am I pushing them in anyway?

PS..
I have no intention what so ever on breeding them this year. I'm hoping they will be ready next season with an average weight of around 1300-1500g and 2-1/2yrs+ of age. Is this too young/small for a healthy breeding and clutch?

[elevatethis]

I like the 3rd winter rule. Would you rather get 4-5 small eggs from a 1400 gram female or 10-11 huge eggs from a 2500 gram girl? I'll take the latter....

[SnakeySnakeSnake]

I like the 3rd winter rule. Would you rather get 4-5 small eggs from a 1400 gram female or 10-11 huge eggs from a 2500 gram girl? I'll take the latter....

Hrm, I don't follow this reasoning


Lets say the egg hatched in July of 03, in September of 05 She is 2 years, 2 months old, weighs 1400 grams, and you breed her. 4-5 eggs

In September of 06 she weighs 2300 grams and lays 9 good sized eggs...

So you could have waited until September of 06, and gotten 10 eggs? But you would have missed out on the previous season where she was of decent size, and layed an ok first clutch.


If you are just comparing the number of eggs 14 eggs is more than 10

I do agree that you should make sure they are the right size and old enough to breed though. And at 1400 grams she might not even breed at 2 yrs 2 months and you have to wait another year.


I guess for people who have 10 females and bought them for breeding, they may be looking for the earliest safest time to breed them, as even if they only get 4 small eggs, if one is a male, depending on your project you could have just saved a whole year.

[elevatethis]

The more experience I get and the more experienced people I talk to, I find it better for you and the snake to wait until they are adults before you attempt to breed them. They invest anywhere from 1/3-1/2 of their body weight into the eggs they lay....

Maybe some of the more experienced breeders will chime in on this.

[ssscales]

That's the thing, everything I've read and have been told about BP females is they can breed from 1200-1500-1800g, which is it? I've also have been told they can breed at 2-3yrs of age, which it?

Everyone seems to have a difference of opinion when BP females should breed.

If 1200g is the min, I'd rather wait till they are closer to 1400g.
If 1500g is the min, I'd rather wait till they are closer to 1700g.
If 1800g is the min, I'd rather wait till they are closer to 2000g.

With Boas the general rule is 3yrs of age and the female should have a good muscled/thick 6ft in length, which is usually attained at or after 3yrs.

With BP's there seems to be a lot of information and misinformation out there.
Adam HELP?

I just want to make sure I am on the right track and not pushing these girls in any way.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I've had 3 year old 1300 gram girls lay 6 perfect eggs ... I've had 18 month old 1900 gram girls slug out.

I "try" to breed girls in their 3rd winter at 1500 grams or better. Over the years, it seems that those girls turn out to be the most solid and consistent breeders.

Some breeders have a ton of success breeding girls in their second winter ... I don't ... I'm probably only around 10% - 20%. Third winter or older with good size I'm closer to 90%.

Also remember that a girl that breeds young and at less than 1500 grams probably won't do too well the following season ... or maybe even not go at all ... you really have to think more about the big picture than a single year when breeding ball pythons ... Breeding girls young and small is a gamble ... you have to ask yourself if you can afford to kill the girl, ruin her for the next year, wear out your male on a girl that might not go, etc.

I've also heard speculation that breeding a girl that is small "imprints" a clutch size on her for life ... for example ... breed a 1300 gram girl and she lays 4 eggs ... many breeders (the big guys/gals) feel that the best that girl will ever be good for is 4 - 6 egg clutches .... but if you would have waited another year and another 300 or 400 grams ... one day that girl could grow to be a 10 - 12 egger. I don't personally have any data to back up the theory, but based on some evidence I've seen on the rare occasions that I have bred young/small girls it seems that it could very well be true.

Just some random thoughts … take them for what they’re worth.

-adam

[ssscales]

Also remember that a girl that breeds young and at less than 1500 grams probably won't do too well the following season ... or maybe even not go at all ... you really have to think more about the big picture than a single year when breeding ball pythons ... Breeding girls young and small is a gamble ... you have to ask yourself if you can afford to kill the girl, ruin her for the next year, wear out your male on a girl that might not go, etc.


Just some random thoughts … take them for what they’re worth.

-adam

Thanks Adam,

My girls were born 05/05-06/05, their 3rd winter would be 12/07. My girls would be 2-1/2yrs old and would be about 1400-1500g. I would probably attempt to breed the girls above 1500g and set a side the girls under 1500g for the following year.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Thanks Adam,

My girls were born 05/05-06/05, their 3rd winter would be 12/07. My girls would be 2-1/2yrs old and would be about 1400-1500g. I would probably attempt to breed the girls above 1500g and set a side the girls under 1500g for the following year.

Also remember that once females hit around 1200 grams that they can take off when it comes to eating and weight ... 1500 grams by a female balls 3rd winter is VERY doable, and 2000 grams is not impossible.

-adam

[rabernet]

Also remember that once females hit around 1200 grams that they can take off when it comes to eating and weight ... 1500 grams by a female balls 3rd winter is VERY doable, and 2000 grams is not impossible.

-adam

Hah! That's nice to know! Sarah is 1280 grams.

So here's another question for you Adam - in Sarah's case - her age is unknown to me since she was a pet shop surrender. If she's up to weight this year - do I try to breed her, or give her another year? I'm only interested in her best interest - so I certainly don't want to push her to breed just because she's up to ideal breeding weight. Better to err on the side of caution, I suppose?

[Adam_Wysocki]

I think that if she has solid body weight for her size you definitely try and breed her.

Her well being only comes into question if she is too thin/small to make it through the stress of breeding/egg production & laying ... A young girl that is that right size will either lay eggs or not ... the older she is the better your chances.

-adam