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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran SnakeySnakeSnake's Avatar
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    Ok, I think I understand genetics to some degree now

    I understand how double and triple heterozygous forms can exist, because the genetic codes for each are in different locations, so they dont overwrite each other.

    Is this true for all possible morphs? So that it is possible to have hetero or homozgyous forms for all types of morphs? Spider + Ghost + piebald for instance?

    In other words, are there double and triple homozygous forms for every type of ball python that just havnt been found yet?

    Double homozygous form of

    albino and axanthic = snow
    spider and albino = albino spider
    ghost and spider = ghost spider

    etc

    so if there are triple forms, can there be quadruple, and so on (i know at that point it would be almost impossible to come up with, but still a chance)

    quadruple homozygous forms are probably a ways off, eh ?

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    Re: Ok, I think I understand genetics to some degree now

    There are a few potential complications but in general quadruple morph balls should be possible, just long odds.

    One complication would be if the morphs you are trying to combine turn out to be different mutations of the same gene - alleles. It isn't for sure proven yet but it's looking like one allele group might include lesser, phantom, mojave, Vin Russo's high yellow lemon, perhaps even butter and a theoretical dilute gene that turns a lesser into a platy. If these are all mutations of the same gene then combining them would be much different than say albino and axanthic which have been proven to be mutations of different genes. This is because a snake only has two copies of each gene, one from mom and one from dad. There is no room for more than two copies so if all of these turn out to be the same gene then it would be impossible to say have a platy that is also a mojave because lesser + dilute + mojave would be three copies of the same gene. The big and important question mark is if the dilute mutation is really the same gene because if so it would mean that no leucistic could carry the dilute gene because it would already have two copies (lesser X lesser, lesser X phantom, mojave X Vin Russo high yellow lemon, etc.). Also, no lesser could carry the dilute gene because if it did it would already be a platy. Still lots of breedings to be sure but so far it's looking like the only way for the dilute gene to be hidden is to be paired with the normal version of the gene or perhaps another dilute version.

    Another possible complication is if two mutations are different genes but the genes happen to be on the same chromosome. There are a limited number of chromosomes and by the time you get to 4 mutant combinations your odds are getting higher that two will end up being on the same chromosome. This is important because the only way the two mutations can get on the same copy of this chromosome to pass to an offspring is if an animal het for both has an odd number of crossovers between the two mutations while making a single copy of that chromosome from its two copies of that chromosome. If the two mutant genes are very close together it might take a lot of breedings of double hets for just the right crossover to happen. For example, if it turns out that one of the axanthic lines and hypomelanistic are on the same chromosome then when the double hets for that true ghost project are bred together they would tend to produce only ¼ axanthics, ¼ hopomelanistics, and ½ double hets but no normals, single hets, or true ghosts without the possibly rare crossover. It’s probably too early to jump to any conclusions about the lack of a true ghost yet but something to watch out for as combos are attempted.

    And even without any of those complications there is the 1 in 256 odds of producing a quadruple homozygous from a pair of quadruple hets in the way. What will probably happen is that someone will produce some double or triple homozygous possible het for the remaining animals and breed them together until the quadruple homozygous is reached in some later generation. It also might be hard to find 4 mutations where none of them will cover up the expression of any of the others. For example, could you tell if a snow stripe was also clown or would the stripe cover the clown expression?

  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran SnakeySnakeSnake's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, I think I understand genetics to some degree now

    Thanks for the response Randy. The fact that the majority of that made sense to me lets me know Im on the right track in understanding this stuff

    I think what confused me originally was that I thought all mutations were on the same gene, and I couldnt figure out how you could have 2 homozygous... once i realized that they were different genes it made more sense. It also makes sense to me that some might overlap, and that some might be too close to make a noticeable difference.

    I can imagine that it would get very complicated to prove a lot of these as things move along.

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