Pics of my 4 month old girls...

[daniel1983]

They hatched out on around 9-23-05...

Saga..


Freya....


I was checking out jtman's thread and decided i needed to post some pics of my two little monsters with my hand in there for a size reference

[tigerlily]

I love Freya's coloring. They also look like they are doing superb. No missed meals for them.

[daniel1983]

Christie....the funny thing is....when I got these girls from Sass, Saga was about 15 grams and Freya was only 9 grams and about an inch shorter.....for some reason she has surpassed here sister.....now Freya is around 136 grams and about 12.5" long and Saga is right at 100 grams and around 10.5" long....

[frankykeno]

Oh that purplish hue on Freya's sides just continues to draw my eye!

They are both lovely though (don't want to slight lil Saga's dragon feelings LOL).


~~Jo~~

[tigerlily]

Wow! That's a lot of growth. I guess Freya just wasn't about to be out done.

[SethsDad]

Im new to snakes ive only had my BP for about 6 months but ive had Beardies for 5 years now. As far as size goes..are you housing them together? If so thats probably the reason for the size differance, Beardies while they have a social structor are solitary animals and alot of new facts have been found with them in the recent years. Biggest one is Dominence. Housing 2 beardies together "can" work but is ill advised because of their dominence issues, and this is a silent killer, one will dominate the other taking the heating or eating the most food or the larger insects and more nutrient pieces of greens or can simply just create a nature chemicle imbalance due to stress in the submissive beardie that will cause it to not be able to process its food in a healthy way or the vitams it gets form its UVB lamp thus making one smaller. Aggression issues can happen as well but those are rarer. Best solution is just seperating them when there is an issue because they should keep to the same sizes, one growing larger is a sure sign of dominence issues. Its one of the lesser ones though so your lucky there as its less likely to cause a majority of health problems related to houseing them together. Some beardies will work together but some just dont. Is the size diffeance mainly in body or just tail length...im assuming body beacuse of the weight differance.
There may be other issues at work but without knowing your husbandry i couldnt really help. What temps do you have? both in cool side and basking? what type of UVB? how much are you feeding them and what are they eating? and what is the size of their tank?

If you want a great infomational place to learn more on them www.bearded-dragon.org is wonderful

If I can help with any questions ill be more than happy to do so.

[daniel1983]

No questions here. I know what I am doin' and I am well aware of everything that you already mentioned

The smaller one actually acts like the more dominant of the two (if any domanance is show at all). They are both fed an equal amount of insects seperately out of their enclosure (freshly molted mealworms and freeze dried crickets). Both collard greens, mustard greens, and pellets are fed in such an amount that only about half of the amount fed is eatten per day and is offered on 3 different dishes. Freya (the larger of the two) just has a better feeding responce than Saga. Since she was 9 grams, she has consistantly eatten more veggies and pellets. Saga does not appear to have the 'taste' for the veggies like Freya does....ha...but she would eat mealies til' she pops.

They are currently kept in a clear plastic enclosure that is approximately the size of a 40 gallon breeder. They are provided with a basking area platform that has temps that range from 100-115 deg. depending on the distance from the heat lamp and are provided with a warm side of around 92-94 deg and a cool side of around 82-85 deg. Nighttime temps fall to 75-80 deg across the enclosure. A Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 Compact Lamp provides the UVB to a location <9" away from the bulb as suggested by the lamp manufacturer. This enclosure is temporary. I am currently designing a custom enclosure that house them when they are fully grown. It will have more than enough room , provide TWO basking and UVB exposure platforms, several food and water dishes(drippers), numerous hides, etc....

[SethsDad]

Sounds like your doing great with your husbandry, textbook perfect i would say other than tank size...your a good daddy...or mommy to them beardies. Only one thing you mentioned caused and concern...Meal worms... they should be more of a snack if offered at all..they have a high risk of impaction because of the amount of chiton shell ratio to the meat. they provide less accuall nurishment than they are just a tasty snack with high risk. Superworms worms or Silkworms would be a much better choice. Superworms look and act just like meal worms ( if a little more active and larger) but have a much higher meat to shell ratio. But..big but..really at 4 months they shouldnt be eating mealies or supers. Its best to wait untill 6 months or 15 inches. Silk worms would be a healthy alternate untill supers can be fed at 6 months. Crix are all around good but freeze drying can remove alot of the natural calcium and nutrient beardies need, adding a calcium dusting is almost needed even with live crix.
Neither would be causing the size differance though. Dominence as I said before can be a silent killer, you may think one is more dominent ad the other submissive but the signs are showing otherwise. Growthwise at 4 months if both are healthy they should be same size and roughly same weight. Your thinking snakes to much when it comes to feeding responce, Beardies and snakes are 100% differant and beardies do not have a feeding responce per say as snakes do. Healthy bearded dragons should eat the same amounts of food even if its differnt types. Greens are great for beardies and its good one of yours eats them but the greens accually settle the growth of a beardie down though they are by far the healthiest of foods..more adult dragons eat greens once they have fully grown. The protein and calcium and nutrients of insects is what makes them grow at early ages.
I am in no way trying to tell you what to do im only trying to offer help to what looks like may be an issue that could become worse quickly. As I said im new to snakes but ive been a beardie owner for years now and though I only have them as pets now I use to be a breeder and my best friends brother..who is also a good friend lol is a herp vet so I learned alot from him as he is a beardie owner as well. I help out on many beardie forums and am only trying to be helpful..like you are helpful here on the BP forums.

[daniel1983]

Molted mealies are just fine to feed to bearded dragons of any age. I keep around 3000-4000 mealworms constantly to keep a constant supply of molteds. They are treated to an occasionally waxworm but are not fed them constantly due to the very high fat content of waxworms....they are more like candy than a food. Superworms should not be fed until a beardie is at least 6months old so they have not gotten a taste for those yet. Live cricket dramatically increase the chances of a beardie contracting parasites so they will never be fed to these girls. The f/d crix come pre-supplemented with calcium.

[SethsDad]

Ive heard that about crickets as well and the pre supplamnetal calcium is great, im glad to hear that. I personally dont use crickets at all due to impaction risk but I know alot of people that do with no problems. As for mealworms, aside from impaction risk they still arnt very good because of their high fat content and low nutrition content. Being high in fat can lead to fatty liver disease which is the #1 killer of adult dragons, being low in nutrition can lead to becoming malnourished. Here is a little food comprision chart that may help.
in case you dont want to read it all ill make a smaller comparison here.
Mealworm= 22% protein, 14.9% fat
Superworm= 54.2% protein, 10.2% fat
Silkworm= 64.7% Protein, 8.8% fat

FOOD %PROT %FAT %Ca %Phos KCAL/gm
Insects
mealworm 22.3 14.9 .26 .23 2.74
cricket 55.3 30.2 .23 .74 unk
silkworm 64.7 8.8 .21 .54 5.74
Superworm 54.2 10.2 .22 .52 5.43

Poultry
whole egg 12.3 10.9 .05 .21 1.47
day old chick15.3 4.4 .44 .40 1.04

Rodents
mouse (1-2 days old) unk unk 1.6 1.8 unk
mouse (7-10 days old) unk unk 1.4 1.3 unk
mouse (adult) 19.8 8.8 .84 .61 2.07

Baby Foods
high protein cereal 35.0 6.2 .66 .75 3.72
baby food - beef 13.6 4.1 .007 .11 .91
baby food - vegetable 2.2 .3 .03 .04 .32
junior beef 15.1 4.0 .008 .11 .96

Miscellaneous Foods
alfalfa (not sprouts) 15.5 1.7 1.29 .21 3.93

* Silkworm values are for worms gut-loaded on mulberry leaves.
Sources:

Nutritional Value of Various Insects per 100 grams

Data collected from The Food Insects Newsletter, July 1996 (Vol. 9, No. 2, ed. by Florence V. Dunkel, Montana State University) and Bugs In the System, by May Berenbaum

Insect Protein (g) Fat (g) Carbohydrate Calcium (mg) Iron (mg)
Giant Water Beetle 19.8 8.3 2.1 43.5 13.6
Red Ant 13.9 3.5 2.9 47.8 5.7
Silk Worm Pupae 9.6 5.6 2.3 41.7 1.8
Dung Beetle 17.2 4.3 .2 30.9 7.7
Cricket 12.9 5.5 5.1 75.8 9.5
Small Grasshopper 20.6 6.1 3.9 35.2 5.0
Large Grasshopper 14.3 3.3 2.2 27.5 3.0
June Beetle 13.4 1.4 2.9 22.6 6.0
Caterpillar 6.7 N/A N/A N/A 13.1
Termite 14.2 N/A N/A N/A 35.5
Weevil 6.7 N/A N/A N/A 13.1
Beef (Lean Ground) 27.4 N/A N/A N/A 3.5
Fish (Broiled Cod) 28.5 N/A N/A N/A 1.0


Nutritional Value of Feeder Insects
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FROZEN SAMPLE
Crickets Mealworms Wax worms Super worms Fly Larva
Moisture 68.96 62.89 60.97 58.91 69.02
Ash 1.52 1.20 0.97 1.29 1.24
Protein 20.72 18.65 15.40 18.92 15.32
Fat 5.74 13.64 20.12 15.07 5.96


sorry if the charts didnt copy well to the site but you should be able to make out the info with just sliding it along in comparison