Temp Problems - Thoughts on what I did?

[Malum Argenteum]

You could get lower wattage heat tape for the cool side and see what happens running the RHP on one circuit and the two heat tapes on the other.

I've done something like this -- I have run multiple levels in a tub rack on one thermostat channel, and used an inline dimmer to reduce the amount of power flowing to certain levels in order to maintain different temps on those levels compared to the level that the probe is on. It is a far inferior method to simply having thermostatic control on each zone that you want to run at a different temp, since you've essentially eliminated thermostatic control of the zone that's a different wattage.

As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

Heat tape is sold in different widths -- from 2" up to 17" (for Flexwatt/Calorique), or 3" to 21" (for THG). Most widths are available in only one wattage per foot. Some Flexwatt widths are available in more than one wattage per foot: 3" is 6wpf or 10 wpf; 4" is 5wpf or 8 wpf.

Whether to choose, say, 6" or 12" heat tape should be based primarily on how much area of the floor you want heated (especially if you're not using a substrate that will disperse the heat a little). Then you figure out what wattage is appropriate if it is a width for which there is a choice. Then you use a thermostat that's going to do what you need it to do -- either control the temp reliably or (if the tape is a higher wpf than is ideal for some reason) limit the wattage that will ever be sent to the tape (which Herpstats can do, though this is most useful in only some rare instances such as minimizing incubator temp spikes).

An interesting fact that was incorrectly (perhaps just unclearly) stated earlier here is that heat tape is adapted from underfloor heating (that's why for a long time only Calorique made it; they spun it off their floor heating); similarly, heat cable that used to be used most back in the day was adapted from gutter/pipe deicing cable. None was designed for reptile keeping, and certainly not designed for PVC enclosures, which came into use after almost all our heating hardware was established (with the possible exception of Arcadia's DHPs). Not centrally important to the discussion, really, but worth keeping in mind when a person is trying to figure out the "best" heating method, as the only thing that matters is how they perform.

[lX V1P3R Xl]

Sounds good. I'm not sure what wattage to use since I've never used heat tape, but I'll probably just get two 1x1 sections of the heat tape dakski pointed out a while back. I was going to just buy a 1x1 to start, but shipping equals the cost of the item itself so I might as well just buy two right away just in case I do end up needing it. I'll start off with 1ft for the warm side, then if it's too cold on the cool side, I'll install the second on the cool side. I think for now it's better off for me to use one of my existing thermostats for the cool side (assuming I use it) and maybe upgrade to a herpstat next black friday lol. I understand the whole "one thermostat for multiple options" plan, but I feel it would be hard to get perfect. Plus, any risk involved is probably pretty equal between that and just using the same on/off thermostats I've been using for years, especially if there is a 1ft space between them with no heat tape.

Herpstat 2 arrived today by the way. The first piece of the puzzle is in, ha!

[lX V1P3R Xl]

I'm back, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! All the parts for the new cage arrived and I finished setting it up. I do have a couple more questions/issues to address... ha. First though, I tested out the temps for 4-5 days and had consistant temp gun readings of 84-86 on the warm side and 77-79 on the cool side. I moved her in this past weekend and she seems to be enjoying the change. I've always aimed her towards her warm hide whenever putting her back in her cage. When I first put her in, she went into it but immidiately came back out to explore as I expected lol. She also grabbed a drink right away as well (I told you guys she has never been shy of drinking right in front of me, including the historical 2-3x from bare hands). She also came to the window to say thanks a few minutes later lol.

Anyway, here are my new questions. As I mentioned before, I had some difficulty trying to find the best way to set up the thermostat for the heat panel. I decided to try what someone else had shown works for them and let it droop on the cool side (visible in pictures). It seemed to work great as shown by my testing temps above. However, when the extra cold weather hit the past few days, it seems that the top of the warm hide hits temp gun 90-91 while the cool side is 75-77. Quite the temperature swing considering its only a 36in long cage. This is using the temp gun on the surface of the warm hide though and any various structure on the cool side. When I gunned her body while in the warm hide during the 90s reading (dont worry, I only do this when I know her head isn't remotely near) she was about 86. When she is out of the hide, the ground temp inside the hide reads 82-84 on the gun. This typically matches the white inside/outside thermometer I have in there when you add one degree (thermometer "outside" probe is inside her warm hide). I'm still concerned that even though the exterior of the hide is 90-91, she herself reads about 86, and the ground temp is consistantly low 80s, that it is still too warm.

However either way, the low ground temp on the warm hide leads to the heat tape (pictured below). Perhaps if the heat tape was doing a better job, the heat panel wouldn't be working so hard. While I found two ways to mount the heat panel and thermostat, I couldn't find any instruction on how to mount heat tape. I have how I did it pictured below based off the written instructions sent with the tape. I feel that there is too much space between the tape and the bottom of the tank because I can easily fit my finger into the gap. Plus, I have the thermostat in the little slot in the bottom of the cage which is designed for it but it angles down and touches the heat tape. Is the way I have it pictured the way it is supposed to be? I just put foil tape on the sides and didn't put any on the top or back because it seemed that was the way the written instructions wanted it. I also didn't put any normal tape near the thermostat itself and above the actual heat tape because I was afraid it would melt the tape or cause issues.

Those are my two main issues I'm coming across. The third and one you guys probably won't have anything to do with is for some reason the left window slides VERY rough. It's really difficult to open/close and I can't seem to figure out why. My only guess is that the staples in the track must be poking up a bit too high so when I have time this weekend I'm going to try to see if I can find something to pound them down a bit more with. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what to do. The right window slides open/closed with very little effort as designed.


Ignore the "-40" on the front thermometer, its broke lol. I keep it for the extra bottom left ambient temp but mainly for the bottom right humidity reading. So far the cage is tyipcally in the low to mid 40's on humidity.




Saying thank you!

I have a new bigger water dish behind her. I needed a new one anyway since this one has mineral deposits that built over time but I kept it in the cage for now since there's room. So far she prefers her old one lol.

[Malum Argenteum]

" I had some difficulty trying to find the best way to set up the thermostat for the heat panel. I decided to try what someone else had shown works for them and let it droop on the cool side (visible in pictures). It seemed to work great as shown by my testing temps above. However, when the extra cold weather hit the past few days, it seems that the top of the warm hide hits temp gun 90-91 while the cool side is 75-77. Quite the temperature swing considering its only a 36in long cage."

A large temperature differential between the warm and cool side doesn't have any relation to how the thermostat is placed. But yes, in a cool room there will be more of a temp diff than in a warm room. One way to tweak that (to reduce the difference between warm and cool side) is to place the RHP a little more toward the center of the enclosure.

There's not much thermal mass in the enclosure, so that will make temps a little more dependent on proximity to the RHP. Substrate and organic hardscape hold heat and release it slowly, compared to a situation where there's mostly radiant heat. Something to consider.

As to the heat tape, I don't use it on PVC enclosures. But on tubs (in both PVC and "melamine" chipboard racks) I do not leave an air gap. Many keepers don't leave an air gap. The original design use for heat tape (radiant floor heating) does not specify an air gap.

There's a worry by reptile keepers that without an air gap the risk of overheating in the case of a thermostat malfunction is increased, and that's basically true (though there's a risk of heat damage from a situation in which heat tape has to run flat out to reach set temp, so that might well be figured in). There's probably a way to get the heat tape to be in contact with the bottom of the enclosure while also maintaining an air gap under the heat tape. Shimming the enclosure off the table in such a way that there is no air flow through under the enclosure (by having the risers all around the perimeter) would be another option; having the heat tape completely exposed to circulating air on the bottom side wastes the majority (= more than 50%) of the heat it produces to the room.

[Homebody]

Sweet set up. I'm not going to lie. I'm a little envious.

What RHP did you end up getting? Pro Products? What wattage?

What temps did you program into your Herpstat 2?

I think you can improve the performance of your heat tape by reducing the ventilation under your enclosure. Looks like you've got it sitting on 1/2" slats. Try 1/4" or even those little stick on rubber feet.

[lX V1P3R Xl]

I checked the temps when I got home from work right now and the top of the warm hide read 90 again. She was outside of the hide though so I was able to get a reading on the inside and it gunned at 86, so not bad. Cool side gunned at 78. Do you guys think that temp difference between sides is an issue or is it fine? I would tend to think that if it's just the top of the warm hide that is hitting 90-91 but inside it is in the mid 80's, it should be ok. Regardless, it's a 10-14 degree difference between sides but I'm not sure how much variation is too much. I don't think I want to move the RHP because that would mean drilling more holes. Plus, I think it would have the opposite effect I would want in summer and the cool side would be too warm.

Malum, if you don't have an air gap on the heat tape on a tub, where are you putting the thermostat? Doesn't the thermostat iteself create or require an air gap? I am going to try messing with the heat tape this weekend though to see if I can get it tighter. Do you guys think it would be bad if I put tape on all 4 sides of the heat tape? The instructions didn't want any tape on any of the black parts. The white areas on the top and bottom are real thin so that's another reason why I didn't attempt it. I'm not sure how yet but maybe I can find something to wedge the thermostat in the slot and keep it from drooping down as well. I can also get some 1/4in wood afterwards if it still seems the heat tape is too loose. My dad had the 1/2in laying around in his garage so I cut it up and that's what I used since it was the very fair price of $Free.99, haha.

I did go with the Pro Products RHP. Bob recommended the PH-115 Pro Heat panel 60 watt so that's what I went with. Thermostat for the RHP is set to 79 (remember the thermostat is on the cool side), and the heat tape is set to 86.

[Zincubus]

Maybe add another couple of hides in between ?


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[Homebody]

I checked the temps when I got home from work right now and the top of the warm hide read 90 again. She was outside of the hide though so I was able to get a reading on the inside and it gunned at 86, so not bad. Cool side gunned at 78.

Those sound like textbook temps to me. I would hold off on any changes, for now, and just monitor your temps to see how well they hold up.

[Malum Argenteum]

Malum, if you don't have an air gap on the heat tape on a tub, where are you putting the thermostat? Doesn't the thermostat iteself create or require an air gap? I am going to try messing with the heat tape this weekend though to see if I can get it tighter. Do you guys think it would be bad if I put tape on all 4 sides of the heat tape?

When possible (I have ~30 channels of heat, so there's a little variance per situation, and some of my 'old work' probes are not as well installed), I put the probe in a groove cut into the shelf under the heat tape. I aim to have the heat tape in physical contact with the probe at all times (since if it isn't, the heat tape will run flat out, and the thermostat will alarm), and try to align the probe so that it touches two heat element strips (since apparently there's some expected variance between heat element strips). I usually put tape on all four edges.