Tarahumara Mountain Boa lines?

[Malum Argenteum]

I'm aware of the Rio Bravo (Gus Rentfro) line of Tarahumara Mountain Boas. Are there any other lines?

[jmcrook]

To the best of my knowledge, all Tarahumara boas in US herpetoculture descend from the original founders brought into the states of which that founding pair produced a litter of 10 in 1999. A pair from that litter was acquired by Gus Rentfro/Rio Bravo and produced a litter of nine F2 offspring in 2002. All of this according to The Complete/More Complete Boa Constrictor. I’ve seen many listed as Vin Russo line but as far as I know, Vin got his originally through Gus.

[Malum Argenteum]

To the best of my knowledge, all Tarahumara boas in US herpetoculture descend from the original founders brought into the states of which that founding pair produced a litter of 10 in 1999. A pair from that litter was acquired by Gus Rentfro/Rio Bravo and produced a litter of nine F2 offspring in 2002. All of this according to The Complete/More Complete Boa Constrictor. I’ve seen many listed as Vin Russo line but as far as I know, Vin got his originally through Gus.

Yes, that's the official account. A couple things make me wonder.

For one, that doesn't square with public import records, which don't show that import exactly that way (though there were a couple confiscations of B.c. at that time that were permitted in -- I wonder if those were the ones that went to the researcher at Arizona).

Also, there are breeders offering Taras that are claimed to be Rio Bravo line, and then also legit breeders who state that they're not sure whether at least some of their breeding stock is Rio Bravo line (implying that there are other lines that they cannot or do not want to identify).

[bcr229]

I have some Tarahumaras. They're awesome little boas and from a keeping standpoint they're easier and more fun than ball pythons, and just a bit more bulletproof than BCI when it comes to temperature and humidity range.

Mine weren't advertised as being from any particular line, and after a few generations there's no really good way to prove it.

[jmcrook]

I love my tarahumaras. Some of my favorite boa species that I have. I'll cross reference this link with the original Complete Boa Constrictor when I get home. Forgot about it when I posted last night
https://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/...perator_Mexico
Seems the UofA researcher brought back the original founding pair from Mexico and then they traded hands to a private keeper and were bred twice to establish the captive population First a single male offspring and then a male heavy litter of 10. Gus got a pair that became the Rio Bravo line but it's not clear where the rest of the babies went. Possibly some directly to Vin? Without detailed records every time they changed hands or how offspring were acquired from pairings it's hard to ascertain how many lines there could be, though they in theory all descend from that original pair. I've also seen some evidence of at least one unrelated animal that has come in from Mexico since the founder pair, but I know nothing about how it got here, who got it in, or if it has been reproduced yet. Into the rumor mill it goes...

[Malum Argenteum]

I have some Tarahumaras. They're awesome little boas and from a keeping standpoint they're easier and more fun than ball pythons, and just a bit more bulletproof than BCI when it comes to temperature and humidity range.

Mine weren't advertised as being from any particular line, and after a few generations there's no really good way to prove it.

I've also seen some evidence of at least one unrelated animal that has come in from Mexico since the founder pair, but I know nothing about how it got here, who got it in, or if it has been reproduced yet.

I'm trying to make sure -- since as mentioned they are distinct in behavior, etc -- that whatever I might buy is pure locale (and I suppose if any other lines from the "same locale" have similar characteristics). Full disclosure -- I recently picked up a female, and all this is in preparation for a male, probably next year.

The breeder I mentioned earlier with the unidentified line is offering Taras that are quite a bit lighter in color than those commonly seen, and I was/am a little concerned that there may be a cross going on. Knowing whether there are some differently colored actual Tarahumaras in the hobby would help to allay that worry. So any other info on that one unrelated animal would be interesting.

At least one boa breeder is selling -- with apparent full disclosure -- Tara/Sonoran crosses that look like lighter Tarahumaras. But at some point locale names aren't always used to refer to "pure locale" animals -- Okeetee Cornsnakes, Volta BPs, Hog Island boas, Kalatoa retics, Fasciolatus leopard geckos are often locales basically misused as morph names. I'm assuming this locale isn't there yet, but some people are quite a bit more loose with their terminology than I'm comfortable with (including breeders who really should know better).

[bcr229]

There's a decent amount of variability in the color of my adults. Babies are relatively light and darken with age, and mine get really dark when in shed and are a few shades brighter immediately after.

If all Taras in the US are truly descended from a small group then I'd hope more could be imported eventually for genetic diversity.

[Malum Argenteum]

Just an interesting note: the text regarding Tarahumaras on this page:

https://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/...perator_Mexico

is cut and pasted directly from Rio Bravo's old site (link to archived page on the Wayback Machine):

https://web.archive.org/web/20090303...oas_mexico.htm

@bcr229, who bred your Taras, if I may ask?

[jmcrook]

I’ve got a male from Michael Beach (Rio Bravo line) and a pair from Eric Shockley/Shox Boas (Vin produced his adults). The male from Michael could hardly be more different from my other pair. Less robust, much darker, no hissing/sassiness at all in any way, not grippy or active much at all when handling
. Pair from Eric is much lighter, growing much faster and more robustly, spunky and full of sass, just overall much more active and alert in hand.
They also change color dramatically from night to day. I posted to my IG (@moreliamafia) the other day two pics of my female 12hrs apart. Aside from the pattern being the same the color looks like two completely different animals.

[jmcrook]

Good catch. I knew it was copy pasted from somewhere and is very similar to the text in both Complete Boa Constrictor books. Couldn’t recall exactly where it was copied from though