Back in it, but new house.

[tsshields]

I’ve been out of reptile breeding and the hobby for about 10 years or so.

I’m back at a point in my life where I have kids and they love reptiles just as much as me so I decided to get back into it.

I have 5 BPs all weighing around 200-400g. They are currently housed in a AP 330 rack system with (9) 6qt tubs.

The rack came with 2 or 3 inch belly heat however here is my question (sorry for the long intro).

My snakes are in the basement which I work daily for my remote job. The basement is a typical basement that stays cool all year long. Between 65-69.

Unfortunately I can’t do a space heater because it would run all day and be very expensive. So I decided to run back heat as well to the rack because I was having a hard of time keeping the heat up with just belly heat (also I had to set the probe for the belly heat to 105 just to get to that 90 hot spot and even still the front of the 6qt tub was still 71 ish.

Once I got the back heat it was super easy to regulate the temps and has been working really well.

However I spoke to someone and they were telling me I shouldn’t be doubling up even though I have probes monitoring both heat panels.

Sure there is a risk that the prob/temp controller malfunctions but I’m by the rack almost 10 hours a day so I feel that risk is a risk I have to take until I can dedicate a snake room.

Am I off here, or is this some serious danger. If it is. What is my alternative approach. Do I try to insulate the rack and just go belly heat?

The ambient temp with belly heat does not get to that 80 degrees that is recommended even in the back of the tub hence the back heat.

Thoughts?


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[Armiyana]

My room gets chilly in winter because I'm in Southern California. We don't run the heater unless it drops under 68 indoors. I've never had a problem with my reptiles on a 3" belly heat. They just tend to hug the back end of the tub a little more. And in summer when room temps warm up, they hug the front a bit more. Works well enough for me.
You can also try getting a square hide that fits a little more snugly over that back end to allow the heat to stay in a more compact space instead of mixing with cooler air as easily. I'll do that for my babies when the temps drop and they love it even when they don't quite fit as nice come spring XD;


My concern is that even though the probes may be reading the correct temps, heat rises. The air temp in the tubs may actually be higher and can cause issues down the line. If you see them starting to spend more time in the front or middle of the tubs that could be what's going on.
Another question is.... how are your probes places and what thermostat are you running? I have never had to run a thermostat at that much of a difference... Mine generally only run 3-5 degrees higher than the hot spot (88), not 15.

[Homebody]

Thoughts?

Yeah, I've got thoughts, but first I have questions. What heat element (flexwatt, heat cable) are you using to supply back heat? What do you mean by "doubling up"? Are you trying to regulate two elements with one thermostat or are you using two? What are your current hot and cold side temps? How are you measuring them? Armiyana's experience not withstanding, keeping ball pythons in a rack in a cold basement sounds like a bad idea.

[Bogertophis]

Yeah, I've got thoughts, but first I have questions. What heat element (flexwatt, heat cable) are you using to supply back heat? What do you mean by "doubling up"? Are you trying to regulate two elements with one thermostat or are you using two? What are your current hot and cold side temps? How are you measuring them? Armiyana's experience not withstanding, keeping ball pythons in a rack in a cold basement sounds like a bad idea.

I was thinking that the "doubling up" merely meant using two heat sources (tapes or cables) to effect the proper temperatures, & that sounds like a winner to me- as long as they're properly regulated (& as long as the entire tubs are not heated- the space at the front still offers them the cooler temperatures they need for thermoregulation). It's no different that what many others do. In general, it's going to take something like this for a chilly basement to be suitable for snakes that need more warmth, the way BPs do.

There's always some risk of malfunctions, but diligence is always a good idea for snake enclosures anyway, with accurate temperature readings a must. The warmer they need to be, the greater the risk. OP- Just be sure to re-check the temperatures & set the whole thing up to test it for a week, preferably, before any snakes occupy it- it can take a while for temperatures* to stabilize. (*they tend to increase as all surrounding materials gradually warm up- initial temperatures will not be accurate) Also keep checking if seasonal differences change the ambient warmth in the room- you might need to adjust for seasons.

Armyiana brings up a good point though- about heat rising in a rack system (potentially making either the bottom ones too cool, or the tops ones too warm). I have never used any sort of rack of tubs for snakes- again, you'll need to test all this out before snakes move in. You don't want them too cool & regurgitating in the lower part of the rack, or the ones at the top getting neurological damage from excessive heat. Every set up is a little different (some materials hold warmth better than others)- so your results may not equal the results that others get from their set-ups. Test test test...

[tsshields]

Hey All!

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

I knew I left out some details and when I was reading your responses and
realized I should have conveyed more so you have the whole picture.

Speaking of picture here is the setup which will help as well.

Also from a testing perspective I have temp and humidity gauges in all of the tubs and temp check with a temp gun daily to be extra cautious.

To answer some of the questions yes I have two different heat sources (flex watt) with a temp controller that has two probes that allows me to set the temp for each probe.

The ambient temp in the back of the tub is 80-82 and the front of the tub around 74ish.

The hot spot with the Substrate (reptibark with paper underneath the reptibark). I’m using is about 88. In order to get it to 90 I’d have to set the belly heat probe to almost 105 and I saw some warning that said it should not reach a temp of 105 or 110 so it’s set at 100.

I thought of the same idea with the hide boxes which would help keep in some of that heat. (Good idea)

As far as snakes in the basement, not much I can do and I would think I’m not the only one that has had to deal with this issue.

Just making sure the setup is safe (or safe as possible) and checking on them so that they are happy and healthy. I do quite a bit of checking and testing with the gauges and temp gun.








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[Homebody]

The hot spot with the Substrate (reptibark with paper underneath the reptibark). I’m using is about 88. In order to get it to 90 I’d have to set the belly heat probe to almost 105 and I saw some warning that said it should not reach a temp of 105 or 110 so it’s set at 100.

Are you measuring the hot spot temp on top of the substrate or below? If you are measuring on top of the substrate, the temp below the substrate is likely dangerously high. Are those humidity readings normal? If so, your humidity is too low as well.

[Bogertophis]

As Homebody mentioned ^ ^ ^ you need to assume that snakes will push under any & all substrate, & take (then adjust) the surface temps. wherever they may connect with excessive heat.

And no, you're certainly not the only one in a similar situation.

[tsshields]

Are you measuring the hot spot temp on top of the substrate or below? If you are measuring on top of the substrate, the temp below the substrate is likely dangerously high. Are those humidity readings normal? If so, your humidity is too low as well.

Just did a quick check and the hot spot underneath the substrate was a little high measured at 92-93 so I can adjust belly heat by a few degrees which will bring that probe setting to 93ish.

I need to give them a quick spray, I just changed the substrate today so it was probably reading a bit dry and need to give it a spray.

Based on the pics and updated temps and settings would you say, I'm ok?

Keep in mind, the snakes have been in this environment for a month with these temps and I have not seen any abnormalities. I am mainly worried about the double heat but based on the feedback and my temps I have gave, it seems ok based on the responses?

[Bogertophis]

I see no real difference between "double heat" versus one larger heat- it's whatever you NEED to provide the right temperatures- as long as they still have enough unheated area at lower temperature for their comfort & safety. They have to be able to avoid the warmth as needed.

BUT remember that snakes choose security over proper temperatures, so to make sure they aren't remaining too long in the warm area & not avoiding the cooler area at the front where they're likely to feel more exposed, make sure that they can hide in the cool area too. That may be a challenge to do in a rack w/ tubs, by design, & that's one thing I have against such housing to begin with. It would be much better (IMO) if the tubs in racks were sideways, & the heated side was just as "secure feeling" as the unheated one, with both the front (more "exposed" feeling) & rear of tub (more private) areas. But as far as I know, no one does that- it's just me, challenging the status quo to do better.

[Homebody]

Just did a quick check and the hot spot underneath the substrate was a little high measured at 92-93 so I can adjust belly heat by a few degrees which will bring that probe setting to 93ish.

I need to give them a quick spray, I just changed the substrate today so it was probably reading a bit dry and need to give it a spray.

Based on the pics and updated temps and settings would you say, I'm ok?

Keep in mind, the snakes have been in this environment for a month with these temps and I have not seen any abnormalities. I am mainly worried about the double heat but based on the feedback and my temps I have gave, it seems ok based on the responses?

To your original question, I don't see any danger in doubling up. As long as both heat sources are regulated by a thermostat, I don't see a problem. Did your friend explain why doubling up is dangerous?

I still think, even with the back heat, that your temps are too low. Even if your snakes don't get sick, I'm concerned that they will spend all their time holed up in their hides. On the other hand, you are keeping a close eye on them, and I'm sure that, if problems arise, you'll address it promptly. Welcome back to the hobby!