Ball Python in 40 gallon long tank?/Gerbils and snake in same room?

[Sugarfoot]

I am considering getting a ball python, and I currently have a 40 gallon tank with the outside dimensions of 48x13x20 (length, width, height in inches). I’ve seen people say that a snake should be able to stretch out along two sides, and two sides together on this tank is about 5 ft (I would probably get a male because they tend to be shorter). However, the inside width is only about 12 inches, and that seems too narrow for a snake, especially for a ball python since they get thick. Because of the height, I would add a shelf and things to climb on, but that still doesn’t do anything about the width. Do you guys agree that it is too narrow, or do you think it would work?

If I do get a BP and don’t use the tank, I would get a tub because they are cheaper. I’ve got some questions about tubs for snakes though. In my tank I currently have two gerbils, and before getting gerbils I learned that the more space they have the better. With BP space I’ve heard varying things though. I’ve seen breeders use racks, and I’ve seen people give a lot of space in storage bin tubs. Since my first experience with contained animals was that I should provide plenty of space, it makes me want to provide a snake with a big tub. For any of you that use tubs, what is the size/dimensions that you have? I’m more curious about the size of tubs that you don’t keep on racks, but all answers would be helpful .

I also know that with glass tanks it's harder to keep humidity and heat in because of the screen top. From my research I know you can cover most of the lid, insulate the sides, etc. in order to make it work, but I was wondering if you have to do the same for tubs. Because tubs don't have screen tops, you don't have to worry about heat and humidity escaping that way, but will it escape others ways (through the sides)? I guess what I'm trying to ask is in general do tubs hold heat and humidity better? Do you have to worry as much about humidity getting too low in a tub?

If I do decide to get a BP and have it live in a tub, that means I could get it while my gerbils are still alive. Both of their enclosures would probably be in my bedroom, and I’ve read other threads about rodents being in the same room as snakes and it doesn’t seem to cause problems as far as scent (I'll put the links down below). However, BPs are not really active during the day, but my gerbils typically are. My gerbils can be a little noisy with their chewing of cardboard tubes and their general rodenty sounds, and I’m wondering if the noise would bother a snake. Do you think a snake would be bothered by this? One of the people in the gerbil thread said that they have a snake, gerbils, hamster, mice, and rats all in the same room. I imagine that room could be a little noisy, but they said all of their pets were fine.

Rats and snakes:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?162880-Housing-Snakes-amp-Rats-in-Same-Room

Gerbils and snakes:
​https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?214298-Gerbil-in-the-same-ROOM-with-my-BP-Robin

[Malum Argenteum]

Personally, I think fish tanks of any size are the worst choice for most snakes, including ball pythons. They're used because they're widely available, and people often have one lying around, but neither of these considerations matter to the snake.

Tubs in enclosed rack systems in a room with appropriate ambient temps can indeed work. People do rig up stand-alone tubs; I think those setups are sub-standard in a few ways. I think that saving money on an animal enclosure is a financial mistake, as one vet episode precipitated by substandard housing can exceed the cost of a very nice enclosure (to say nothing about the non-monetary value of the animal's health itself).

I personally think the commonly used tub size used in racks (CB-70) is too small for a ball python. I keep many snakes in tubs, but my male BP in that size tub just wasn't acceptable in my opinion. I do have experience keeping snakes in larger tubs (Sterilite Tree Box), but fighting with such a big tub gets old quickly, and heating that space is a real challenge (minimizing challenges is best; there will be challenges enough anyway).

A far, far better enclosure in every way is a PVC display enclosure heated with an RHP. I think an AP T8 is OK for an adult BP, though some keepers would recommend a taller (or larger) model and I would not argue with that.

I raise mice (and in the past, rats) in the same room and in close proximity to my snakes and have never thought there were any problems with that arrangement. Some snakes may react to the scent of rodents on a keeper's hands with a feeding strike, so washing hands after handing rodents is a good idea (regardless of whether one owns snakes or not, but in this situation there's an extra reason).

[Bogertophis]

I happen to like glass tanks (but fyi, I keep things OTHER than BPs- NOT BPs), & I have to say that's not a good tank for a BP (even with the modifications mentioned). Your hunch is correct- it's too narrow- if it was a standard 40 gal. "breeder tank" (36" long x 16" wide x 17" high) that would be far more suitable in terms of the floor space- but still challenging to keep in the humidity. All housing options have pro's & con's- depending on what you're keeping & what you're willing to do to make it a good fit.

Incidentally, your tank would be GREAT for a corn or rat snake. As would a screen top for maximum air-flow. But I digress...

Handwashing & learning to correctly "read" your snake's body language should keep you out of trouble with your gerbils & snake in the same room. (Also, don't forget that your clothing can retain gerbil scent too, so if you handle them in ways that they're on your clothing, change clothes before handling a snake.)

[Homebody]

Do you guys agree that it is too narrow, or do you think it would work?

I think that it's too narrow for an adult ball python for the reasons you mentioned.

For any of you that use tubs, what is the size/dimensions that you have?

When I started, I kept my adult male ball python in this tub (https://www.target.com/p/underbed-la...40#lnk=sametab). I upgraded to a 3x2x2 plywood enclosure because he repeatedly injured himself trying to push his way out. So, I wouldn't recommend it. If your going to keep him in a tub, give careful thought as to how you are going to heat it. RHPs, CHEs, DHPs and other heat bulbs won't work. I used a heatmat to create a basking spot, but I had trouble keeping his ambient temps high enough.

Because tubs don't have screen tops, you don't have to worry about heat and humidity escaping that way, but will it escape others ways (through the sides)? I guess what I'm trying to ask is in general do tubs hold heat and humidity better? Do you have to worry as much about humidity getting too low in a tub?

Tubs hold humidity well because airflow is limited. I suppose they hold heat as well, but they can't hold heat that isn't in there in the first place, and your options for heating it are limited. Most people that use tubs keep them in rooms with high ambient temps (75-80F). That's higher than comfortable for most people.

[Homebody]

Incidentally, your tank would be GREAT for a corn or rat snake. As would a screen top for maximum air-flow. But I digress...

I agree. If you're just considering a ball python, maybe, you should expand you consideration to species appropriate for that enclosure. There are so many wonderful species (every bit as wonderful as ball pythons) that would be happy in that tank for their entire lives. A Children's python would fit perfectly. I have one and I can say they make wonderful pets. Like Boger's corn and rat snakes, they are more temperature/humidity tolerant than ball pythons and less finicky eaters, as well. Just something to consider.

[Sugarfoot]

Thank you all for your answers, they are all very helpful!

My parents have me pay for all of my gerbil stuff myself, so that's why I said I would want to get a tub. However, I didn't realize that I could probably make a deal with my parents and pay them back overtime for a PVC enclosure . From my research, PVC seems to be very insulating, but my rooms tends to be on the cooler side, so I was wondering if the temperature of my room would affect the inside temperature of the enclosure too much? Also, when you use an RHP, where do you put the probe for the thermostat? I don't know what age ball python I would get, but if I got a young one, is it okay to put them in the enclosure they would live in as an adult? I read that they can live in any size as long as there is enough clutter.

I'm glad to hear that my gerbils wouldn't be an issue.

[Sugarfoot]

A Children's python would fit perfectly. I have one and I can say they make wonderful pets. Like Boger's corn and rat snakes, they are more temperature/humidity tolerant than ball pythons and less finicky eaters, as well. Just something to consider.

I just did some quick research on Children's pythons and they are super cute! I have found a lot of stuff about them being nippy, but then I've seen a lot of people say they have the calmest one ever. What has your experience with yours been like?

[Sugarfoot]

Incidentally, your tank would be GREAT for a corn or rat snake. As would a screen top for maximum air-flow. But I digress...

I've researched corn snakes a little, and they are also one I would consider getting. When you say a screen top is good for airflow, would that mean I would leave it uncovered? Leaving it uncovered would affect humidity and heat, but I know that corn snakes can be more resilient. I just want to make sure that I would be able to keep the heat and humidity at a good level while still having airflow.

[Bogertophis]

I just did some quick research on Children's pythons and they are super cute! I have found a lot of stuff about them being nippy, but then I've seen a lot of people say they have the calmest one ever. What has your experience with yours been like?

I have a similar (slightly larger) Australian Spotted python- I've had her for 14 years (she's now 15) & only had one nip ever- my fault. She's calm (likes to wrap in/on warm hands) & even did great being handled by a bunch of strangers at several public "meet & greets" that I've done.

In terms of nipping, I agree though that reviews appear to be mixed on either of these snakes, & might also be made better or worse by one's own snake experience (I have a lot...) as well as the snake's own genetics & experience in life. I think it can be said that nips from these snakes are mostly prey-confusion (they rely on heat-sensing pits, like BPs) & they are easy to feed (ie. have a GREAT appetite & are much easier to feed than BPs). They also start out very small- so you have to figure they're going to be instinctively self-defensive (or they would never survive in the wild).

Many snakes start out very tiny & nippy, but they outgrow nipping by the time they get bigger (to where the nips hurt more), because with gentle empathetic handling, they learn not to fear us, & they learn we're not edible. All snakes have their own personality though- they're not all the same, any more than dogs or people are.

[Bogertophis]

I've researched corn snakes a little, and they are also one I would consider getting. When you say a screen top is good for airflow, would that mean I would leave it uncovered? Leaving it uncovered would affect humidity and heat, but I know that corn snakes can be more resilient. I just want to make sure that I would be able to keep the heat and humidity at a good level while still having airflow.

Corn snakes are MUCH easier to keep because they don't require such high heat or high humidity like BPs. Yes, the screen tops are NOT covered. Corn snakes are quite comfortable @ 70-75*- if your room is 70*, let's say, you'd just heat one end (with UTH) of the tank- not more than 1/4th of the floor. You'd want to put a hide over the UTH also, so as to create a "warm room" for them- & inside that should not ever be higher than 84*. Doesn't have to be exact- just low 80's for the warmth provided. They'll mostly use the unheated areas that are in the 70's. EASY.

Humidity can be provided just with a humid hide, not overall humidity in the tank. Good air flow is best- uncovered screen top, yes. Overhead warmth (like from a dimmed light or CHE) should ONLY be used if room is cold- like in winter. At night their ambient temp. can drop to 68* with no problem. Corn snakes are pretty, & generally docile, sweet snakes- probably the best & easiest pet snake there is, & especially if this is your first. They happily eat f/t mice also.

Note, if you get a hatchling- understand that it can take up to a year or so for their adult colors to come in- they change gradually. So buy from a reliable source to know what the snake will look like as an adult- these comes in all sorts of beautiful colors. They also enjoy using some branches (easy to wedge diagonally from bottom corner to upper corner). The biggest drawback for a corn snake is that they start off so tiny & fragile- and they climb well so you MUST prevent escapes- the lid must NOT be able to be pushed up. And minimize handling when small & new- get them eating & growing for a bit- then work into handling gradually.

What is the temperature range in your room? (winter & summer) A very cold room will be hard to overcome, especially for snakes that need more warmth (such as BPs).