New BP terrarium question

[Papipanic]

I recently took in a 4 year old albino BP and set up a temporary terrarium for it. I bought a Vivisun 20 gal UTH and a zoo med reptitherm thermostat. I put the probe between the glass and the uth and turned it on, with the setting at 90f. The temp with a thermal gun shows spikes of 97 degrees and the temp on the thermostat will reach 92-93, so I lowered the temp to 87, but the temp still gets to the 90s with the gun and the temp on the thermostat. I’m afraid I’m going to bake my new friend, so I’m currently heating her enclosure with an overhead light. Is there something I’m not seeing here? I started off with the zoo med uth, but it never got warm at all, so I switched to the vivisun. Any help would be appreciated

[Homebody]

I recently took in a 4 year old albino BP and set up a temporary terrarium for it. I bought a Vivisun 20 gal UTH and a zoo med reptitherm thermostat. I put the probe between the glass and the uth and turned it on, with the setting at 90f. The temp with a thermal gun shows spikes of 97 degrees and the temp on the thermostat will reach 92-93, so I lowered the temp to 87, but the temp still gets to the 90s with the gun and the temp on the thermostat. I’m afraid I’m going to bake my new friend, so I’m currently heating her enclosure with an overhead light. Is there something I’m not seeing here? I started off with the zoo med uth, but it never got warm at all, so I switched to the vivisun. Any help would be appreciated

I used a Zoo Med UTH for about a year and it worked fine for me. I've never used a Vivisun. I currently use heat tape. Pics of your enclosure would help us advise you. This thread will show you how to post them: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures.

[Malum Argenteum]

A UTH/heat mat/heat tape is very unlikely to sufficiently heat any glass enclosure (since that's not what they're designed to do) unless the ambient temp is much warmer than most homes. Further, the Vivosun 20 gal UTH is only 6x8, which is a lot smaller warm area than a 4yo BP needs.

That said, the temp reading with the IR temp gun at the location the snake will be is the number to watch when dialing in a heat mat; the number on the thermostat display needs to be set at whatever number ends up producing the desired temp at the snake's location.

Sometimes "spikes" in the temp on the IR gun display are caused by the non-uniform heating of most heat mats/tape; there are resistive elements in the mat/tape that heat up, but those elements have void space between them that don't heat up. Taking the IR reading from a few feet back can help to get an average temp reading, though an important temp reading is the one on top of the substrate on the mat, where there shouldn't be serious local temp variance and a close up IR reading should work.

I agree that more info on the whole setup would be ideal.

[Caitlin]

As mentioned, UTH were never meant to heat an entire enclosure, so I can see why you are struggling. They heat only the surface area immediately around them, but will not warm the surrounding (ambient) temperatures at all. Since you have adopted a BP, you'll need ambient temperatures ranging from 86-88F on the warmest end, down to 76F or so on the cooler end. If you are using a glass tank, you can best achieve that temperature gradient by using a bulb that emits heat, but no light - like a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) or deep heat projector (DHP). That way the warmth can be available 24/7 without leaving a bulb on at night. Lights of any color - even the so-called 'moonlight' bulbs supposedly for night use - are many, many times brighter than even bright moonlight and can be stressful.

Editing to add that regardless of what heating choices you use, any heating element has to be on a thermostat to regulate temps and prevent burns. Apologies if you already know this; it's just so important that I always mention it.

[Papipanic]

So, I bought the zoo med snake kit, with the uth, the light, the aspen substrate, the water bowl, and the tiny “hide”. I gave the BP a bigger hide, and upgraded the substrate to one that holds moisture for humidity purposes. I believe it was coconut fiber? A guy at a local reptile shop told me it was ideal, so I used that. I bought a thermostat, and use the light during the day for ambient temps. The digital thermometer I bought registers around 82 degrees in the tank on the end that I have the light on. I put the uth under where the BPs hide is. I understand that a uth can’t heat an entire enclosure, but I know they need a “hot” contact spot, so I’m using it for that. My real concern is that the uth is getting far too hot in some spots, unless the IRgun is getting inaccurate readings. When using a probe thermometer, it reads higher than what the IR gun is reading in some spots, reaching over 96 degrees, so currently, until I have this sorted out, I have turned the uth off

[Malum Argenteum]

use the light during the day for ambient temps [...] so currently, until I have this sorted out, I have turned the uth off

I think it is accepted by most keepers that dropping the heat at night on a BP, especially down to ambient, isn't a good idea. Turning the UTH off because it is running warm makes less sense than turning the thermostat down until the desired temperature is reached.

[Papipanic]

I get what you’re saying. I’ve messed with the temp a bit, but it seems to still spike before it drops back down. If I turn the thermostat down too low, it seems there wouldn’t be a point in the uth. The temp spikes and the drops down and spikes again when the thermostat kicks on. If it was staying at the same temperature and not spiking, that would make more sense. I guess I’m just concerned that the spikes for short amounts of time could be too much for the BP, but then dropping the temp down too low after the spike is also not great. I’m not challenging your information, just seeking to reach an understanding of what’s going on. I truly want to keep this BP happy and healthy and have never cared for one before, which is why I’m here lol

[Malum Argenteum]

That's interesting. I guess I wasn't understanding what you meant by 'spikes', only because I've not experienced that with any equipment I use.

A heat source going over the set temperature is usually due to the probe being placed too far from the heat source (but see next paragraph). That isn't the case in your setup as you describe it, so I wonder if it has something to do with the thermostat. "On/off" thermostats -- that turn power on, and then off, and then on -- sometimes have a large "hysteresis" (the number of degrees between the 'on' temp and the 'off' temp) which sounds like what you're describing. A high quality "dimming" thermostat -- that is, one that doesn't turn the heat source on and then off to maintain temp, but rather applies power until it gets close to the set temp and then gradually ramps power down, until it figures out what percentage of full power needs to be applied to maintain the set temp -- is the best bet for smoothing out the temperature. Herpstats (link) are the best choice. They're cheaper than a vet visit, and so are a great value.

One thing you might try to confirm is that the thermostat probe is fully in contact with the heat elements of the hat pad (and not on a void space in between those elements). This can be hard to do with heat mats, but with heat tape where the resistive elements are plainly visible I like to tape the probe to the mat so the probe in in contact with two of the elements (so, perpendicular to the elements and spanning two of them). This sometimes seems to make for more accurate readings, and I imagine in your case it might allow the thermostat to more quickly read the temp of the mat so that it doesn't overshoot the set temp. Not sure if this is relevant in your situation, as I've not used the heat mat brand you mentioned, but it is something I try to pay attention to.

Hopefully this all makes sense, and at least some of it helps.

[Papipanic]

I hope this picture more explains my issue with my uth.

[Malum Argenteum]

In that photo, the thermostat is set to 'cool' mode. It should be set to 'heat' mode for heat mat use. I can't say why the unit isn't applying power right now, though, in spite of the actual temp being higher than the set temp (the instruction manual says that in cool mode when power is applied the snowflake icon appears next to 'cool', but that isn't the case here).

You could change it to heat mode and see how it works.