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  1. #1
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    New leopard gecko not eating. Also, I'm afraid to leave phoenix worms in the tank

    Hey All,

    My (other, non-snake owning) son got reptile jealous and wanted a gecko for his birthday. We got a leopard gecko who is a juvenile and the following living set up:

    20 gallon tank
    60W moon UVB on one side
    Hot side: Moist hide (i forget the name but has the sponges at the top) and regular stone hide that gecko can also bask on top of
    Cool side: Another hide
    I forget the substrate but some type of woodchips, dark brownish, that pet store recommended
    Bowl with calcium supplement
    Water bowl

    We got him last Friday, Feb 24th. So it's been 6 days.

    Pet store recommended Phoenix worms for food and also recommended keeping in fridge to prevent them from turning into soldier flies. I looked online after and saw fridge would be too cold for them but I've been using it for a week and after taking them out they reanimate in about an hour.

    I have a shallow ceramic bowl for feeding. The first day I was going to leave the worms in the bowl but I saw that a couple were actually able to climb out. So now I'm paranoid that if the worms get loose in the substrate they will turn into soldier flies that may then reproduce and I'd have a fly infestation (is this a thing?). So I've been trying to feed the gecko supervised at dawn and dusk. He's eaten maybe 3 different times, one grub each time. Most times I've tried he circles the bowl, licks around, but then moves on, sometimes climbing into and over the bowl, ignoring the worms.

    I read that they may not eat when first coming home to new environment but should that phase be over by now? Should I be leaving the food in there to eat at his leisure? If so, maybe I need a better bowl? Or is the phoenix worms getting loose in the cage a non-issue that I shouldn't be so worried about?

    Any recommendations appreciated!

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    What is '60W moon UVB' exactly (link to product)?

    What are warm side and cool side temps, and how do you measure them? Is the warm side temp thermostatically controlled?

    Please post photos of the enclosure, and of the furnishings, and of the gecko.

    Have you offered any other types of feeders?

    What "calcium supplement" exactly (brand and product)? Not relevant to current issue, but definitely relevant to ongoing care.

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  4. #3
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    I'm at work so will post pictures later of the whole set-up but have a picture of the gecko.

    Here's the bulb:

    Amazon.com : (3 Pack) Zoo Med 26379 Reptile Bulb, 60W : Pet Supplies

    Calcium is: Repti Calcium

    As for temperature, I don't have a thermometer yet. I use the same bulb for my ball python and it's in the same room (that tank has digital thermometers on both sides) and for that the hot side is 88-93 degrees and the cold side is usually 73-77. So i'm figuring it's the same. Not controlled by a thermostat currently.

    No, haven't offered any other types of feeders.

    Here's the gecko. Hides on this side taken out to try to feed.

    Last edited by MedicalAuthor; 03-02-2023 at 05:31 PM.

  5. #4
    Registered User Lizrd_boy's Avatar
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    Re: New leopard gecko not eating. Also, I'm afraid to leave phoenix worms in the tank

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicalAuthor View Post
    I'm at work so will post pictures later of the whole set-up but have a picture of the gecko.

    Here's the bulb:

    Amazon.com : (3 Pack) Zoo Med 26379 Reptile Bulb, 60W : Pet Supplies

    Calcium is: Repti Calcium

    As for temperature, I don't have a thermometer yet. I use the same bulb for my ball python and it's in the same room (that tank has digital thermometers on both sides) and for that the hot side is 88-93 degrees and the cold side is usually 73-77. So i'm figuring it's the same. Not controlled by a thermostat currently.

    No, haven't offered any other types of feeders.

    Here's the gecko. Hides on this side taken out to try to feed.

    Hi there! First, You will need to move him off of that substrate. If you want, you could use cage carpet, but if you don’t have anything else paper towels will do. Aside from that, I would replace the light bulb with an led that doesn’t emit much heat (not enough to make any difference) and put that on a timer for 12 hours in/12 hours off. Then get a decent $20 thermostat and a heat mat. Leo’s are Nelly baskets, so heat from below is most helpful. Think about it— in the wild they’d be inside burrows during the day, and then at night they’d come out and lie flat against rocks that are still warm from the sun. Not giving them either belly heat or heat from a halogen bulb (which is much more expensive, since you’d need a dimming thermostat that will easily cost $150 or more) will easily cause eating issues.

    As far as general care, I’d recommend looking at this care sheet. Unfortunately, a lot of pet store employees aren’t too knowledgeable about reptiles, and the care sheets that Petco/pet smart give you are equally uneducated.

    https://herphusbandry.weebly.com/leopardgeckocare.html

    nice gecko, btw!
    Last edited by Lizrd_boy; 03-02-2023 at 06:08 PM.
    My name is Josiah, proud owner of Lenetta and Lea the leopard geckos and Bluebelly the fence lizard.

  6. #5
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    Without knowing the temps, it isn't possible to say what is going on exactly with the feeding. An IR temp gun is a necessary piece of equipment for any herp keeper -- any brand and model will work fine (link to example). The temps you mention would be fine starting points for the gecko, and the temp gun enables the keeper both to make sure that those temps continue, and to check how the gecko is using the various temperature regions in the enclosure so that its preferences can be maximized (e.g. if it hangs out on the cool side a lot, turn down the warm side temps gradually until it thermoregulates regularly).

    A basking lamp is a bit of an odd way to provide heat to a leo, but it can work. Leos are not basking thermoregulators by nature -- they seek out secluded crevices of the proper temps and moisture levels and stay there, so it is important to make sure that the hide areas it uses are maintaining suitable temps rather than forcing the gecko to seek out unnatural hot spots.

    Some thoughts beyond temp concerns: that gecko has been eating well and looks good. No obvious health issues.

    Many geckos (IME, after offering them to hundreds of terrestrial geckos) won't eat Phoenix worms. Too bad, since they're among the more nutritious of feeders. Offering crickets, mealworms, superworms, and roaches will allow you to figure out which will work best for you and the gecko. The last three types can be left in the enclosure in an escape-resistant bowl -- I use these, but in looking for a link I learned that there are some nice looking ceramic ones available too. Aside from possible temp issues, the type of feeder being offered is the likely cause of any feeding issues from the gecko in the photo.

    Though this isn't relevant to the current feeding concern, all feeder insects offered need to be dusted with a full spectrum supplement at every feeding; Repashy Calcium Plus is my recommendation. Plain calcium is fairly useless since it has no D3, which is necessary for calcium metabolism unless sufficient and metered UVB is provided and the gecko uses it (the bulbs you linked do not provide UVB, and I don't recommend new keepers provide UVB anyway since it is really easy to misuse). Plain calcium also does not provide Vitamin A, which is not present in sufficient amounts in any feeder insect and is necessary for health. Some keepers like to also leave a bowl of plain calcium in the enclosure; I don't, and it isn't necessary.

    So: get an IR gun and dial in temps, offer a range of feeders, and get an appropriate supplement are my recommendations. Hope they help.

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  8. #6
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    https://herphusbandry.weebly.com/leopardgeckocare.html

    There is a fair amount of advice in that caresheet that is could be better. Not trying to be critical here, but only to improve care recommendations.

    A 20" x 12" footprint enclosure (10g tank) is not at all suitable for an adult leo for its whole life as it doesn't even allow room for sufficient hides, much less to provide decent temp and moisture gradients. A 20 long or 18 x 18 ExoTerra (better: 24 x 18) should be considered the bare minimum space for one leo; a 40 breeder/36 x 18 ExoTerra is much more suitable.

    Leos quite distinctly do have preferences for hides, and when given choices tend to favor natural materials that provide a space with minimal height (likely mimicking the crevices they hide in in the wild). Stacked cork flats or slate, or cork rounds, are nearly always preferred over plastic hides of any design.

    A UTH by itself isn't adequate for heating anything except a tub in an enclosed rack in a warm room -- belly heat and cold air won't allow an animal to reach its target body temp.

    BSFL do have an ideal calcium to phosphorus ratio, but that doesn't entail that they don't need to be dusted; like all feeder insects they are deficient in Vitamin D and Vitamin A.

    Carpet is generally considered to be about the poorest substrate. Beyond the risk of catching nails and complete prevention of any sort of digging behavior, it doesn't allow for any moisture gradient in the enclosure. The practice of keeping leos in a dry enclosure with one moist space isn't a natural state for them, so a substrate that holds a little moisture is better.

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  10. #7
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    He's now eating REALLY well. Thank you for all the guidance. Has eaten phoenix worms, roaches, and mealworms readily.

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  12. #8
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    Re: New leopard gecko not eating. Also, I'm afraid to leave phoenix worms in the tank

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicalAuthor View Post
    He's now eating REALLY well. Thank you for all the guidance. Has eaten phoenix worms, roaches, and mealworms readily.
    That's great.

    Could you describe the changes you've made, so that future readers can get info on their own similar situations?

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