Only eaten about 3 times in 5 months

[Bogertophis]

So, I got two live mice fuzzies today, eyes closed, and the python went after both of them (offered about 30 minutes apart) relatively quickly. I had a thawed small rat ready after the second feed, and the python was already poised at the hide entrance.

He seemed to be interested in the rat for about 5 seconds and then turned away and retreated into the hide.

My thoughts are that this is a clear indication that the snake is actively averse to the rats.

1) Would you try live, eyes closed rats again? In case this is an issue of live versus f/t and not specifically an aversion to rats? Does anyone feed multiples of eyes closed/fuzzy rats even to grown pythons to avoid the danger that comes with live feeding?

2) Are live, full grown mice just as dangerous? Early on, he took down two live mice back to back and seemed like it was without any fight.

3) It seems like the logical next step may be to try f/t full grown mice to see if he takes that. If mice end up being the diet, what are the health/notable implications for what I can expect from how it will affect my python?

And also, a small clarification above: I was trying to feed my snake really young rats, hoppers or fuzzies, and that last time got a rat that I I didn't realize was more mature. I thin this was in response to me getting a rat that seemed way too small the week before. Anyway, I have used 'small' rats since starting f/t but before that was mostly keeping to the eyes mostly closed and this last failure was the most mature.

Right now it's important that your snake gets some regular meals down, so I'd feed him what he wants- don't "rock the boat"- just get food into him. Eating only 3 times in 5 months tells me he's starving right now, so I'd wait a while before trying to get him on rats, IF at all.

A better move would have been a live mouse fuzzy or two, followed by a pre-killed (fresh or f/t) mouse. He might have taken a larger mouse at that time. And YES, mice with eyes open bite back too. Rats are worse (they're bigger, stronger & more intelligent), but both are a danger to snakes.

Nutritionally speaking, your snake will be fine eating mice only for life- the only thing is "convenience" as one large mouse won't be enough for a meal for an adult BP, & some snakes (not all) will balk at eating more than one item per meal.

[Zincubus]

Nice looking set up although I’d add a few branches and some fake foliage to help it feel more secure . There’s an awful lot of open space in there


I presume you’re feeding in the evenings and in dim light if you use a hairdryer..

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[MedicalAuthor]

I think he isn't going to go after rats anymore. In the last two weeks he's readily eaten two eyes-closed mice fuzzies (and rejected a f/t small rat offered right after) and readily ate f/t full grown mouse.

So I think I'm going to do f/t mice from now on. I have a few frozen small rats left I may try every now and then to see if that changes but it seems like mice are working out well right now for him.

[MedicalAuthor]

I haven’t had consistent luck with f/t mice. I think the last four I’ve offered have been failures. He seems even actually repulsed by them. Will move to the other side of the hide. I tried leaving one in there and he climbed to the top of the tank as if the mouse was unpleasant to be around.

I went and got two fuzzy/eyes closed mice today and he gobbled them up really quickly.

I wonder if I may be resigned to live mice, at least until I have him eating consistently again? That said, how much of a risk would it be to do adult mice? Or a juvenile?

Or if feeding 5 fuzzy mice per week is what I have to do to get the right amount of mass in him, should I just do that?

[Bogertophis]

I haven’t had consistent luck with f/t mice. I think the last four I’ve offered have been failures. He seems even actually repulsed by them. Will move to the other side of the hide. I tried leaving one in there and he climbed to the top of the tank as if the mouse was unpleasant to be around.

I went and got two fuzzy/eyes closed mice today and he gobbled them up really quickly.

I wonder if I may be resigned to live mice, at least until I have him eating consistently again? That said, how much of a risk would it be to do adult mice? Or a juvenile?

Or if feeding 5 fuzzy mice per week is what I have to do to get the right amount of mass in him, should I just do that?

By your account, he's eaten so little that I'd be worried his strength & stamina won't be a match for an adult (live) mouse. Fuzzy mice are very small- the next size up is a "hopper" & if anything, that's what you should be trying (or if you wish, feed him 5 fuzzies a week for a couple weeks first, just to have him in better shape). Besides that, I'm not sure your snake is big enough or ready for that large of an increase in prey size- it won't help if he regurgitates it. In fact, you want to avoid that at all costs, so don't jump to an adult mouse yet.

I know some snakes are very hard to get on f/t rodents- fewer still refuse no matter what- BUT when you say he was "repulsed by them" I have to wonder if you're thawing them correctly so they aren't spoiled. It makes a huge difference. Please describe how you prepare the frozen mice? You wouldn't be the first one doing this wrong. Snakes have a good sense of smell- if it's rotten, they're not eating it. Also, it needs to be very warm, to mimic a live rodent.

Also, there are some tricks like "chain feeding" the f/t prey immediately following the swallowing of the live fuzzies. You have to have the f/t properly thawed, & be low key about it, & use tongs as subtly as possible to put the f/t mouse's nose into the snake's still-open mouth right before he finishes swallowing his live "appetizer". If you do this right, his teeth will catch on the f/t mouse & he'll keep swallowing the larger f/t prey. He's clearly hungry, if he's taking the fuzzies- it's good that he's eating, but it takes some skill & patience to get him on f/t. Sometimes a snake will learn (from "chain feeding") to just start accepting f/t prey after a few times, & that's the goal, for the snake to learn they're edible.

[Armiyana]

Adult mice are VERY risky for young BPs. They are definitely more likely to bite than a rat in my own experience.


Is this baby still in the 20 gallon size? He may just really be waiting it out until he's super hungry to take meals as well.
I would go back to the absolute basics. small plastic tub, undertank heater and thermostat. If there's only enough room for one hide, that's okay for this (hopefully temporary) housing. Give him a day or two to see how he settles in. Keep it as dim and quiet as possible.
after that, late in the afternoon take some dirty bedding from your pet rat and leave some nearby. If he starts peeking out of his house that's a great sign. They're ambush hunters so trying to chase them around with the prey can just stress them out more. The other thing that stresses them out more is trying to feed too often. So when you say the last 4 were failures, is that over a month? or a couple of days?

If you do try live fuzzy rats again or want to try a small live hopper mouse just to see if he'll go for it, him peeking is definitely a good sign. Especially since it was the first things he was eating with the breeder. But as Bogertophis mentions, make sure the f/t rodents are being thawed correctly if you wanted to try that again.

If he eats, awesome! But keep him in there. You don't want to move him back to the larger tank until he is eating reliably and you can ID how likely he is to eat for you. Sometimes babies freak out alot when they're thrown into too big of a home right away. Start with baby steps and move up to the 20 if you need to. As much as it sucks, the most important thing is for this baby right now to be eating, not for the cage to be big and spacious.

[Homebody]

Also, there are some tricks like "chain feeding" the f/t prey immediately following the swallowing of the live fuzzies.

I found these instructional videos helpful when I was transitioning my Children's python from hopper mice to Reptilinks: https://reptilinks.com/pages/videos. He's feeding Reptilinks, but I think the techniques he demonstrates, including train (same as chain) feeding, would help anyone with a problem feeder.

[Homebody]

I found these instructional videos helpful when I was transitioning my Children's python from hopper mice to Reptilinks: https://reptilinks.com/pages/videos. He's feeding Reptilinks, but I think the techniques he demonstrates, including train (same as chain) feeding, would help anyone with a problem feeder.

It's best to watch them in order, but you should skip the first two. They're Reptilink specific. I wouldn't advise Reptilinks for your snake. The techiques he demonstrates progress from easier and less intrusive techniques to more difficult and intrusive ones.

[MedicalAuthor]

This is all great advice. I'm going to dive into the videos this weekend.

I was thinking about stopping by the pet store on my way home and getting 3 more fuzzies just to round out the 5 for this week. Any particular issue with feeding him again 24 hours later? And then I would try one of the methods suggested above for next weekend's meal.

[Bogertophis]

This is all great advice. I'm going to dive into the videos this weekend.

I was thinking about stopping by the pet store on my way home and getting 3 more fuzzies just to round out the 5 for this week. Any particular issue with feeding him again 24 hours later? And then I would try one of the methods suggested above for next weekend's meal.

Yes, a BIG issue with feeding again so soon. Best not to feed a snake sooner than 5-7 days (& that's with smaller, easy to digest rodents- ie. mice, not med/large rats). You risk causing the snake to regurgitate because they haven't had enough time to replenish their digestive enzymes. And regurgitation might not seem like such a big deal, but now & then snakes aspirate into their lung & die from regurges- snakes cannot cough. (With fuzzy mice, you might get away with it, but I wouldn't personally risk it.)