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  1. #11
    BPnet Senior Member xFenrir's Avatar
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    Re: IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    Same here- if true, it's astounding...& scary!

    As bcr229 suggested, I hope you're able to look further into this with the suggested sources, & I want to thank you for sharing this with us here, since most of us (I'd assume) have no direct experience with this. Hoping the best for you & yours.
    Thank you. It is for sure new territory from anything I've read, and she has definitely not been around any snake since 2012 - we have no friends with snakes; my last reptile expo was 2014 and I never touched any reptiles there nor did I handle my boa anytime directly after the show.

    As upset as we are that this is how her final time with us will be (however long it is) I'm hoping we can somehow contribute to more understanding of this disease. My husband and I discussed that we are willing to send samples or data if we can. I just don't want to give away her body at the end, so I'm not sure what we could do. But I'm open to talking with others about what they'd be looking for.
    BEWARE, I MAKE THREADS DIE.

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    0.1 Spider BP (Loki), R.I.P... We will never forget you...

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    Bogertophis (11-25-2022)

  3. #12
    Registered User Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    Do your research on Google Scholar. General web searches have a very low signal to noise ratio ever since the Amazon Affiliate program started causing serious damage to the quality of information on the web.

    https://scholar.google.com/

    If I lived within a day's drive, I'd go to SEAVS (as recommended above).

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  5. #13
    bcr229's Avatar
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    I would have something like a boid panel done from a place such as https://www.vetdna.com/ to determine exactly what your snake has before making a decision on what to do with her, as different groups are working with different viral diseases.

    Also inclusions aren't necessarily indicative of IBD because other things can cause them. I had a boa that passed of cancer, verified via necropsy, that had inclusions caused by the cancer. She had been housed in the same room as several racks of ball pythons and stacks of other boas and retics for years - about 50 snakes total - so if she had IBD or even any viral infection as a carrier the other snakes should have been dropping like flies. Up until the cancer she had never been sick, never had an RI, never regurged, etc.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bcr229 For This Useful Post:

    Bogertophis (11-25-2022),dakski (11-25-2022),Homebody (11-25-2022),Malum Argenteum (11-25-2022),xFenrir (11-26-2022)

  7. #14
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    And I'd still be hoping that it's something else (treatable & not fatal), & that they jumped to a conclusion about the inclusions they saw.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  8. #15
    BPnet Senior Member xFenrir's Avatar
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    Re: IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
    I would have something like a boid panel done from a place such as https://www.vetdna.com/ to determine exactly what your snake has before making a decision on what to do with her, as different groups are working with different viral diseases.

    Also inclusions aren't necessarily indicative of IBD because other things can cause them. I had a boa that passed of cancer, verified via necropsy, that had inclusions caused by the cancer. She had been housed in the same room as several racks of ball pythons and stacks of other boas and retics for years - about 50 snakes total - so if she had IBD or even any viral infection as a carrier the other snakes should have been dropping like flies. Up until the cancer she had never been sick, never had an RI, never regurged, etc.
    My vet said she didn't see anything she thought indicated cancer, but I also would hope they're wrong about IBD. That's also what got me is that I'm not seeing any of the "indicative" neurological signs like regurgitating, weight loss, or any twisting/stargazing, but that could also be because she's in early stages of the disease?

    I'll be sure to check out more diagnostic options, I saw University of Florida also does testing specifically for IBD so maybe my vet can send samples there too.
    BEWARE, I MAKE THREADS DIE.

    --------
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    0.1 Colombian BCI (Satin)

    0.1 Spider BP (Loki), R.I.P... We will never forget you...

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    Bogertophis (11-26-2022)

  10. #16
    bcr229's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to say that your snake might have cancer, just that there have been other causes of inclusions found than arenavirus.

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  12. #17
    BPnet Senior Member CloudtheBoa's Avatar
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    Inclusion bodies are made to encapsulate foreign bodies, it doesn't always mean arena or nido. But, boas are fairly well known to go 1-3+ years without symptoms, or be asymptomatic carriers. Supposedly other species can as well, you just don't hear about it as often.

    Definitely get the inclusion bodies tested if you can, it may be unrelated to the viruses that lead to the typical IBD that people are aware of. And if it is one of those viruses, do not interact with anyone else's reptiles, and don't add any new reptiles. When your snake passes, dispose of all caging and equipment before getting any other reptile.
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  14. #18
    Registered User Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    Re: IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa View Post
    When your snake passes, dispose of all caging and equipment before getting any other reptile.
    Since IBD arenavirus -- like nidovirus and paramyxovirus -- is an enveloped RNA virus, it is quite unstable in the environment and very susceptible to regular disinfectants (bleach, alcohol). Equipment can be disinfected with common products such as bleach or alcohol.

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  16. #19
    BPnet Senior Member CloudtheBoa's Avatar
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    Re: IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum View Post
    Since IBD arenavirus -- like nidovirus and paramyxovirus -- is an enveloped RNA virus, it is quite unstable in the environment and very susceptible to regular disinfectants (bleach, alcohol). Equipment can be disinfected with common products such as bleach or alcohol.
    Good to know! Iíve always thought they persisted rather heavily in the environment, but perhaps thatís just what people did jic before more research was done.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    3.3 Boa imperator ('15 sunglow "Nymeria," '11 wild-type "Cloud," '16 anery motley "Crona," '10 ghost "Howl," '08 jungle "Dominika")
    3.5 Plains garter snakes

    ~RIP~
    2.2 Brazilian rainbow boa ('15 Picasso stripe BRBs "Guin" and "Morzan, and '15 hypo "Homura", '14 normal "Sanji")
    1.0 garter snake ('13 albino checkered "Draco")
    1.0 eastern garter ('13 "Demigod)
    0.0.1 ball python ('06 "Bud")

  17. #20
    bcr229's Avatar
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    Re: IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa View Post
    Good to know! Iíve always thought they persisted rather heavily in the environment, but perhaps thatís just what people did jic before more research was done.
    Fortunately no, for all that they are highly contagious they're pretty delicate. You may be thinking of crypto, which persists in the open for months, can survive being frozen, and is impervious to bleach and F10.

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