Having issues with young snake eating....

[KimS]

First off Hey, new to the forum but have been reading a lot on here since finally getting to have some ball pythons of my own. Husband was a weirdo and didn't want me to have any, he gets to race again...I get to have snakes. lol!

I got a male Pastave that was born on 7-2-2022, he got to me on 9-16-2022 on his card his last feeding before he got here was 9/9/2022 and he finally ate for me on 9/30/2022 when I just left it outside his hide for him. I first put him in an aquarium and he did okay, but yes it was too big even with clutter etc. I got him to eat a F/T hopper in that set up but then he refused or ignored them for two weeks. I read on here about putting him in a 6 qt tub with a hide and water bowl, with the proper temp and humidity to get him set up at. I did that, got the set up working well with humidity and temp as well. I waited a week then offered him another F/T and he refused, it seems like he's literally scared of the feeder but now just leaving them isn't working either. I went to the local pet store to get a live hopper, they told me they were out. I spent two weeks waiting for them to get some back in stock only to be told this week that they never carry live hoppers....

Now, I'm kind of in a pickle to find somewhere that has them in stock after them giving me the run around and he still refuses my F/T offerings. I have no clue how asking for a live hopper repeatedly caused them confusion but I digress. I have called a few places and no luck yet, but I will not give up on that I know of a few more that I will try to hit this weekend that are pretty close before attempting a long ride to a Petsmart or Petco....

I guess with all that...I'm curious why he would eat one F/T fine then refuse and even act scared of them. I am literally concerned he'd be more scared of live at this point because they might be more active than these are with my zombie wiggle. He will smell and flick his tongue then just ignore them. He definitely doesn't have the interest my other two have in feeding and hasn't since I've had him. I even leave the feeder with him and he will crawl right over and around them. All this while acting interested in the smell from me feeding the other two snakes. He is a very timid little guy (60 gms) but I worry about being too timid to eat? Is that a thing with snakes this young? I just feel like at his age he is going way too long without showing signs of wanting to eat at all. I know the possibility of a vet is likely but trying not to do that unless I absolutely have to because that will stress him too and I've been trying my best not to stress him.

Sorry if this is a jumbled mess, trying to get all my thoughts out in type while stressing out is not my strong point.

Thanks, Kim

[Bogertophis]

And I agree- if hub gets to race, you get to have snakes!

One thing that scares snakes is repeatedly being put in new enclosures, no matter how nice they are. Snakes in the wild learn their way around- for safety (survival!) they must learn their way around so they can hide from predators & from bad weather (either too cold or too hot). So every new home freaks them out & contributes to having them refuse food.

So does handling- & you didn't mention if you've been handling this snake or not? For best results- do NO handling until any new snake has eaten at least 3 times without refusals at normal intervals (weekly for a young BP), UNLESS in shed- & that's an acceptable "excuse" (snakes normally refuse food when in, or going into, shed).

Do you know how to tell when a snake is in shed? What color is this snake? (it's harder to tell on albinos & lighter color snakes)

I agree, I wouldn't jump to a vet visit yet either- not without real signs of illness. This is most likely a husbandry issue.

Food refusals also happen when snakes are kept in bright lights, or without enough privacy, or when they're not kept warm enough. If you provide more info (highest & lowest temps. etc) it might help us to help you. Pics can help too.

[dakski]

A few questions.

1. Are you offering F/T rat hoppers or mouse hoppers?

2. What did your BP eat prior to getting to you? What size prey? Mice or rats? F/T or live?

3. How are you defrosting and offering the prey?

If you can answer these questions, it would help us help you.

Not properly defrosting prey or not offering it properly can cause a snake to refuse. I can send you a step by step list, if you want, but most important is to defrost the prey without heating it (cooking it). In room temp water, for example, until fully thawed. Then you want to warm it up quickly (hot water from the tap - not boiling or anything close - 110-120F, or use a hairdryer to warm it up) and offer on tongs. If leaving it worked last time, that's fine, but if you can, you want to illicit a strike and coil (more likely that he will eat it then). BP's have heat pits in their face/mouth area that sense warmth from prey items. If you aren't warming up the prey properly or adequately, he likely won't recognize it as food. He very might be scared because this object is coming at him, but doesn't register as food due to temp.

So can trying to switch prey items. Additionally, offering appropriately sized prey is important as well.

I am encouraged by the fact your BP ate F/T once already. I would not try live (necessarily) yet unless that's what you plan to feed long-term.

As Bogertophis said, leave your BP alone, let him adjust, etc. No handling.

Also, you mentioned temps and humidity are correct. What are the temps and humidity and how are you taking those measurements?

Finally, make sure there are plenty of appropriate sized hides in the enclosure. BP's like to burrow/hide. Make sure he has access to options for hides on both the hot and cool side of the tank.

P.S. What does your husband race? I used to race a Formula Mazda (race car). Just curious.

[KimS]

Thanks for the reply and here's some more info!

1. I offer F/T mice hoppers. I got some F/T rat pups, or the equivalent to mice hoppers too but he had no interest in them either.

2. They fed him live hoppers, according to the size marked on his card they were smaller than the ones frozen that come from Mice Direct, at least shorter anyway...

3. I have tried two ways with him on the thawing technique. The time he ate for me I did it the way I got accustomed to with my other snakes. That is to put the frozen mouse in ziploc bag, put it in a bowl of warm tap water, then put a bowl on top and fill with warm tap water to hold in between the warmth. I wait about 10-15 minutes and check for cold spots, might redo the water if needed. Once there are no cold spots, I leave it in the bag and dry it with a hair dryer for maybe 30 seconds and then give a good blast with the dryer to the face, since I try to offer face first with tongs. I have left one out at room temp and then used the hair dryer to warm it up to "live" temp. that didn't make a difference, he refused that one. I'm not saying I didn't get any too hot though, I've started trying to use my temp gun to check them now.


I really want to feed F/T, the only reason I was willing to try live was just to get him going again. I just fear he won't eat it since he seems scared of thawed and I didn't want him hurt or having to keep a mouse alive...

I haven't been handling unless I have to for cleaning. I handled him the day he got here, this after being trapped overnight in a FedEx hub, so I looked him over really well and got a few pics of him. Then about two weeks later, well after he ate, I handled him long enough to look him over for any issues and then again about 4 weeks later to put him in the bin to downsize his area for him.

I have the temps at 85 on his warm side and right around 75 on the cooler side, it's a little harder to get that in the little tub but so far it seems to be holding. Also the humidity is showing between 50 and 57% at all times. I had two Reptizoo digital thermometer and hygrometer but now I have another on the way, the one on the cool side ended up in the water bowl...lol! I also check it with a temp gun too. He has no lights on him now, just normal daylight from the windows, nothing at night his area is dark.

Since I think I'm replying to both at the same time...I think he's dark enough that I would recognize a shed coming and I've noticed nothing like that with him. He's also been just as active and not excessively hiding, even though these guys do hide a lot he comes out every day and my others don't do that when shedding.


I got some pictures, now I need to learn how to post them. I have no clue what I'm doing there, let me work on that....lol!

[Bogertophis]

This? > > > https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

And FYI, snakes can obviously "feel" (sense) a shed cycle on the way, well before we can see any evidence- many do refuse to eat, & you wouldn't be the first to be totally mystified.
In my experience, when snakes that have previously eaten suddenly act "afraid" of their food, it's either because they got bit by live prey, it smells "off" or different, OR, they feel a shed coming.

Also FYI: snakes NEED good hydration both to digest well or to shed well. So try raising his humidity (to 65-75% for a while) because if he senses a shed coming, he may refuse to eat, & the shed will take MUCH longer if his hydration is poor. (50% is a bit low, especially if shedding.) See? Snakes can't tell us this stuff- we have to learn to pay attention.

One more thing, while I'm at it: Don't offer prey more than once a week, as it just stresses a snake into refusing. If weekly offers have been refused a few times, wait longer (10 to 14 days) before you offer again- & keep checking for signs of a shed cycle (but be subtle- avoid handling or "helicoptering", lol). If he HAS eaten f/t, switching to live may hurt more than it helps.

Above all, you're not the only one this ever happened to. This too shall pass. We're here to help.

[KimS]

I wondered about a shed but with no signs, I was like would he not eat for this long?!?! I guess I got that answer he just might!

I will keep the humidity up a little, in the bin it is easy to get up there as opposed to in the glass terrarium set up. That won't be hard to do and he does drink a lot of water, I see him drinking all the time, unlike the other two that I see drink on occasion. Phury drinks at some point where I see him nearly every day.

I did make the mistake of offering food every 4 days, until he ate. Since them I have backed off to every 7 days but I can do 10 and see if that gets him back interested and less annoyed with me. I'm glad to know I wasn't just being paranoid about trying live, it really concerned me but I was worried since he's so young and has gone so long without eating. I won't do it just yet though and continue to try with the F/T, just not every 7 days.

It's like you know that I'm a helicopter snake parent. lol! I admit I try not to but when I'm worried it's hard although I have left him alone other than doing his water bowl for over a week.

Edited to add: The picture of him is the day he got here, I've not gotten any since then because I've tried leaving him alone.

I put some pictures in the gallery, hopefully they work. I just got back and this looked like the fastest way to add them. https://ball-pythons.net/gallery//sh...mageuser=89288

[Bogertophis]

Any idea when he shed last?

Most of us are "recovering helicopter snarents"- not to worry, you're in good company. Snakes are so different from other pets, it takes time to learn & feel comfortable with their ways.

[KimS]

They didn't mention anything about his last shed, so I'm not sure about that. I figured he would have shed by now but so far nothing I can see anyway. My other snake has shed twice since I got this guy!

I can see that they are all very different already! Thankfully the first one is the perfect first snake he's more "outgoing" and doesn't seem to be very shy about much...especially eating. lol! This guy is a bit younger than my first one so that is what I figured a lot of it was until he went so long without eating, then I started to worry and well it still worries me but I hope he wouldn't refuse to eat until it hurt him and he couldn't bounce back.

[spellspell]

Not sure aobut your question, but what's up with husbands that don't understand snakes... I don't get it