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Thread: ID Confirmation

  1. #1
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    ID Confirmation

    Hi everyone! I was hoping for some help IDing three babies I hatched last year. I've been down the rabbit hole a few times on these guys but keep ending up unsure of myself. The pairing was a Pastel Enchi to a Champagne Butter.

    Dam - Champagne Butter
    https://i.imgur.com/B3rIdRZ.png

    Sire - Pastel Enchi
    https://i.imgur.com/Z2qyyuu.png

    Baby 1
    https://i.imgur.com/4IFWxZP.png

    Baby 2
    https://i.imgur.com/2yLmSI7.png

    Baby 3
    https://i.imgur.com/HcOdx8s.png


    I was thinking perhaps that babies 1 and 2 were pastel champagne butters? And baby 3 was a champagne enchi pastel butter? There seems to be a ton of polymorphism in champagne and I'm struggling to find anything definitive that would point me in the right direction. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you everyone!

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Natural For This Useful Post:

    Albert Clark (10-27-2022)

  3. #2
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    Images: 7
    Looking at them, what I see is:
    Butter champ enchi pos pastel
    Butter champ pastel
    Pastel Champ possible enchi

    1 definetely has enchi patterning in the markings where 2 is more blotchy in appearance.


    I'm not as well versed with champagne myself so I could be wrong as well. XD;

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    Albert Clark (10-27-2022),nikkubus (10-28-2022)

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    Re: ID Confirmation

    Thanks! Yeah they are so stinking tricky. It is tough to see as well but baby 1 is a tad bit more yellow than baby 2, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were different genes. I'm going to try and post some additional pictures of the babies as well that might be able to show some additional details.

    Here are some extra pictures:
    Baby 1: https://i.imgur.com/9fZePH8.png

    Baby 2: https://i.imgur.com/DMArmgH.png

    Baby 3: https://i.imgur.com/sXjwCEZ.png
    Last edited by Natural; 10-27-2022 at 12:53 PM.

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    Albert Clark (10-27-2022)

  7. #4
    BPnet Veteran nikkubus's Avatar
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    I haven't got much experience with Champagne either, but Armiyana's ID looks correct to me. I'm doubting Pastel is in #1 because I think all those stacked up you would get little to no pattern at all. Champagne being so variable even alone, it's really a tough ID to make even with a lot of experience.
    7.22 BP 1.4 corn 1.1 SD retic 0.1 hognose

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    Albert Clark (10-28-2022),Armiyana (10-28-2022)

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    Re: ID Confirmation

    Thank you!

    I also stumbled upon this snake: https://i.imgur.com/KQcdL7Y.png which is by far the closest I've seen to either of mine. So maybe no butter? And it's just Pastel Enchi Champagne?

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    Albert Clark (10-31-2022)

  11. #6
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    There was still lesser in the pairing.... So it's hard to say. Lesser and butter are basically the same gene with polymorphic traits. So it could also be mislabeled.

    Champagne unfortunately tends to disrupt most of the patterns and markers you associate with the different genes. I do feel like lesser/butter would be more likely to help wash out the darker headstamp that champ and enchi can leave.

    The only way to know for sure on 1 & 2 would probably be breeding it out to see. But just remember not to cross them back to anything champagne or spider complex.
    Last edited by Armiyana; 10-28-2022 at 01:41 PM.

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    Albert Clark (10-29-2022),Homebody (10-28-2022),nikkubus (10-28-2022)

  13. #7
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    Re: ID Confirmation

    Thank you everyone for all of the insight! I did a lot of searches on MM and found a few other snakes that looks pretty close to these 2 guys. What is strange is that a lot of the posts either do not mention the parents, or those that do end up mentioning something in the BEL complex. I legitimately can't tell if the luck is just insane or if these are actually butter champagne enchi pastels. I'll post some of what I found below.


    https://i.imgur.com/JbAsEan.png
    https://i.imgur.com/qyv1PZM.png
    https://i.imgur.com/vZamJpW.png
    https://i.imgur.com/rACXfTQ.png
    https://i.imgur.com/RltQU4m.png
    https://i.imgur.com/ffA4wm9.png (previous one used in post)

    I'm sort of at a loss so I guess the only way to find out will be holding onto these guys for a bit and seeing what they produce. I am thinking that the third baby is probably just pastel champagne. The polymorphism in champagne is just more absurd that I ever could have imagined. Everything from eye color to pattern is just completely different from snake to snake. Thank you again for everyone's help. I'm just going to listen to this on repeat until these guys are old enough to produce a clutch or 2 so I can figure what is happening.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9aNdMLYUrk

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Natural For This Useful Post:

    Albert Clark (10-31-2022)

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