What is your snake thinking?

[YungRasputin]

follow up question: was the combative male isolated to himself or was he kept in a room with other snakes? we’re those snakes male, female or both? am curious because i’ve heard of breeders “setting the mood” by using the trace pheromones from sheds so i’m wondering if said pheromones being perceivable to him by virtue of being in a room with other snakes would have a behavioral impact 🤔

[Gio]

follow up question: was the combative male isolated to himself or was he kept in a room with other snakes? we’re those snakes male, female or both? am curious because i’ve heard of breeders “setting the mood” by using the trace pheromones from sheds so i’m wondering if said pheromones being perceivable to him by virtue of being in a room with other snakes would have a behavioral impact ��

Good question, but I don't think the environment was a factor.

The retic was in a cage a bit further away and not stacked with the other 3.

There was a female Royal in the same room and a female Coastal carpet.

The other animal in the room was a male boa.

Retics love to "throw arches" when they are exhibiting breeding behavior. There wasn't any of that and I find it unlikely that either of the female pythons would elicit any type of combative behavior on his part. He never pushed. All the focus was on me once he was mature.

The male boa constrictor wouldn't factor in at all.

My buddy here started off with a really big female SD and acquired a male SD that was young but was a buzzsaw immediately. The female he had needed a cage the size of the Malaysia to keep her from pushing so he re-homed her. His male was nasty, probably similar to mine but in a smaller package.

Another placed retic in the books, then it was my turn.

It is hard to make a blanket statement, but it appears the males, especially with SD blood can be ill tempered.

I have seen issues with male mainland animals as well.

Sad as we used to get on quite well.

[YungRasputin]

Good question, but I don't think the environment was a factor.

The retic was in a cage a bit further away and not stacked with the other 3.

There was a female Royal in the same room and a female Coastal carpet.

The other animal in the room was a male boa.

Retics love to "throw arches" when they are exhibiting breeding behavior. There wasn't any of that and I find it unlikely that either of the female pythons would elicit any type of combative behavior on his part. He never pushed. All the focus was on me once he was mature.

The male boa constrictor wouldn't factor in at all.

My buddy here started off with a really big female SD and acquired a male SD that was young but was a buzzsaw immediately. The female he had needed a cage the size of the Malaysia to keep her from pushing so he re-homed her. His male was nasty, probably similar to mine but in a smaller package.

Another placed retic in the books, then it was my turn.

It is hard to make a blanket statement, but it appears the males, especially with SD blood can be ill tempered.

I have seen issues with male mainland animals as well.

Sad as we used to get on quite well.

now i’m thinking that it could’ve been the SD background insomuch as a lot of SD localities aren’t multiple generations captive like mainlands because 1 thing I’ve noticed with my collection is that I’ve had to really work with my dwarf burms to get them to tame down whereas my mainland burm has been immediately easy going and much easier to bond with - which of course retics and burms are different but still - am def curious about about the impact of the SD background in your situation

[dakski]

1. Hook train

2. Condition to be fed certain times of day - I feed all my snakes at night with lights dimmed (not dark - I need to see what both I and they are doing).

3. Do not get in over your head! If the snake is question is over 8FT +/-, basically, bigger than a common boa in terms of larger constrictors (I consider BI's and BC's medium size), have more than one person standing by for feeding and handling.

4. Hook train

5. Condition to be fed certain times of day.

6. Use tongs

7. Do not get snakes that YOU can't handle, or get in over your head.

8. Read, observe, practice with smaller snakes before moving onto bigger ones, and learn snake behavior.

9. Hook train

10. Use your brain and always expect the worst, especially with large constrictors. Remember, these animals largely go by instinct.

[Bogertophis]

And don't over-estimate yourself -your strength & agility- & work such large* snakes by yourself. Just please don't... (*large by weight or length, or both)

What I really liked about that video is the way she remained calm, but the snake STILL escalated & kept wrapping- an excellent demo of what goes wrong & just how proficient snakes are at this.

[bcr229]

This video was posted in a few retic forums/groups years back and the comments were... not kind.

First, they are raising live feeders in the room with the snake's enclosure; the rat rack is visible in a corner of the room at one point in the video.

Second, it was obvious even before she touched the top of the enclosure that the snake was throwing strong I AM HUNGRY AND HUNTING responses.

Third, hook was used improperly. It is not a tool to remove a snake from your body. Once a giant constrictor grabs and wraps the hook is irrelevant.

Fourth, once a big constrictor - or even a small one - grabs you, even if you do pry it's mouth off of you by force it's just going to grab you again because it's treating you as prey that is trying to escape. If you're lucky it'll just grab your arm or leg. If you're unlucky it'll go for your face.

You have to convince the snake to release you and look elsewhere for prey by breaking the food response. Obviously staggering to the bathroom to try to put the snake's head under water isn't going to work, so the other option is to apply something nasty smelling to the snake's nose. Personally I prefer white vinegar as it smells awful but it's safe for the snake. Others have recommended rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer but those are poisonous if ingested and you don't want to risk getting any into your snake's mouth.

[YungRasputin]

And don't over-estimate yourself -your strength & agility- & work such large* snakes by yourself. Just please don't... (*large by weight or length, or both)

What I really liked about that video is the way she remained calm, but the snake STILL escalated & kept wrapping- an excellent demo of what goes wrong & just how proficient snakes are at this.

yes but also i do think weight, girth, and muscle mass are a critical point as far as danger levels are concerned considering i would say, an 8 foot African rock python is more dangerous than a 13 foot scrub python insomuch as while scrub pythons may be long they are super slim, basically like a big long rat snake with a python head - i don’t think they could lethally harm an adult human but an 8 foot girthy snake like a BCC, African rock, etc could

[Gio]

now i’m thinking that it could’ve been the SD background insomuch as a lot of SD localities aren’t multiple generations captive like mainlands because 1 thing I’ve noticed with my collection is that I’ve had to really work with my dwarf burms to get them to tame down whereas my mainland burm has been immediately easy going and much easier to bond with - which of course retics and burms are different but still - am def curious about about the impact of the SD background in your situation

Not just something SD's engage in. My animal was Dwarf x SD x Mainland. He was roughly 43% Dwarf and 37% SD. The rest was mainland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKnBVWZ8hA4

Many don't understand the difference between combative behavior and feeding behavior.

This guy (in the video) actually has the same hook I used for mine.

The hook doesn't shut off the combative response. My earlier photos show that.

You can make your own conclusions about the video. The poster is obviously trying to show an example of what "might" occur when you work with the species. My situation was different from the video in some ways but similar in others.



Another misconception is the amount of sexual dimorphism that exists in the species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PIm46enf88

I had a long conversation with Nick Mutton about snake male combat. His conclusion, and it was based on field work, not hearsay, was that males can be every bit as large as females in the wild.

In captivity it is not seen as often because breeders, especially the ones involved in a giant species don't benefit at all from larger males and they try to get their females larger and ready for breeding. I won't mention names but there is a well know retic breeder that has grossly over sized and over fed female retics.

Again, the retic species is not for the novice keeper. You can look at the retic forum here and see the early "successes" people had and then things go silent from those same people. I'm admittedly one of them.

Every animal is different, every keeper has their own techniques and hopefully knows their animal.

I could have worked with my animal and maybe after time, things would have settled, although the current breeder he was placed with has passed on info that he still continues to be an aggressive jerk. He is what he is.
It just wasn't for me and I have 3 others in the family to consider as well.

The simple fact is, you won't always know what your snake is thinking or reacting to.

With a smaller species you can get away with some mistakes.

With a larger species especially a reticulated python, you may not get away with a mistake.

[YungRasputin]

Not just something SD's engage in. My animal was Dwarf x SD x Mainland. He was roughly 43% Dwarf and 37% SD. The rest was mainland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKnBVWZ8hA4

what i was saying about SD i think also could be said of D as well - that’s a lot of (potentially) wild DNA

Another misconception is the amount of sexual dimorphism that exists in the species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PIm46enf88

I had a long conversation with Nick Mutton about snake male combat. His conclusion, and it was based on field work, not hearsay, was that males can be every bit as large as females in the wild.

will def watch video but would be curious about the particulars of his study

In captivity it is not seen as often because breeders, especially the ones involved in a giant species don't benefit at all from larger males and they try to get their females larger and ready for breeding. I won't mention names but there is a well know retic breeder that has grossly over sized and over fed female retics.

i may be just starting my journey re: breeding but i definitely do not like the concept of either under feeding or over feeding for whatever purpose - just seems v unethical and also, self-defeating because you would think if you want to produce too tier specimens you would want the parents to be as healthy as humanly possible and fed moderately with a focus on peak health - in that respect, i think median studies of wild specimens would probably give us a more accurate picture of what healthy specimens should look like yeah