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  1. #1
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    HELP! Gravid Female Suddenly Passed

    So I recently got into breeding ball pythons, and I have acquired a few breeders recently for this project. I've kept pet ball pythons for years (my oldest is now 7 years old) and wanted to step it up, never had any problem with my pets. While I was searching for local ball pythons for our breeding project, I found a guy selling a gravid female. Thought this would be a good opportunity to practice with one clutch before all of our other females began breeding and laying. She seemed normal and healthy at the time of purchasing, and actually was going into a pre-lay shed. I don't have a weight from before she was bred, but her last weight was 1800g. She shed one complete shed on September 27th, passed some urine on October 12th, and passed sometime today, October 13th. I thought it was just inverted laying at first, but when I went to touch her she was entirely unresponsive and has not moved since.

    Based on what I've researched, she shouldn't have been quite due to lay yet based on the timing of her shed, so I wasn't looking especially for any signs of dystocia. I would check on her, and she seemed fine when I went to clean her tub following her urinating. She was active and flicking her tongue. She actually had some more activity exploring her cage yesterday. I hadn't seen any coiling behaviors like she was trying to lay either. She was being kept on paper towels because I've always been terrified of my balls ingesting substrate and I knew that if somehow paper towels were ingested it would be obvious. Everyone else in both racks are doing great, with hot side temps of 90 degrees (using a thermostat with heat tape and double checking with laser thermometer) and the room temperature being 70 degrees. I spray the tubs occasionally to help maintain humidity. Many of them ate yesterday as well, including some that I've had longer than her as well as some of the ones I got in a week ago. Those that didn't eat only didn't do so because they've never eaten f/t before, which is what I offered yesterday. This particular female was not offered food because she had not been eating, which I had assumed was due to the eggs being so far along.

    So my question is, what went wrong????? I'm so clueless as to what happened and I haven't seen anything so far on gravid ball pythons suddenly passing. I've had my pets for years and many new breeders in this rack for much longer than I've had this gravid girl with no issues occurring with anyone else. I do know that this guy seems to smoke in his house (which I figured out after I purchased her) but like I said she seemed normal up until her passing. I'm so afraid I've done something horribly wrong and I don't want this to happen to any of the other girls I'm planning on breeding.

  2. #2
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    Please tell me she was properly quarantined in another room? You mentioned more new breeders in that rack.
    New animals should never be introduced into your colony for any reason without that quarantine for at least 90 days.


    There unfortunately isn't a way to tell you what had gone wrong without a necropsy. Snakes especially are very good at hiding things that are wrong with them. Stress can make something minor become something major, but they might not let you know.

    As a general idea, the possibilities could be the following on top of many other things that we may never know:
    -Congenital defect
    -internal bleeding or rupture
    -follicle rupture
    -organ failure
    -infection or abscess
    -cancer
    -eggbinding (maybe too early to be)
    -viral infection

    I'm sorry for your loss regardless. These sorts of things can happen unfortunately and they can be sudden.

  3. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Armiyana For This Useful Post:

    Albert Clark (10-13-2022),Alicia (10-14-2022),Biddlebuddy (10-13-2022),Bogertophis (10-13-2022),GoingPostal (10-14-2022),Lord Sorril (10-13-2022)

  4. #3
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    She's in a separate room from all of my established ball pythons, but the other snakes in her rack are also in quarantine seeing as they are all new. Many of them came from the same guy. I use hand sanitizer after any interactions. I just hope that my handling her yesterday didn't cause rupture or excessive stress. I tried to keep it to a minimum and fully supported as much of her body as possible when moving, and I wouldn't pick her up unless necessary to clean.

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  6. #4
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: HELP! Gravid Female Suddenly Passed

    Wow, so sorry for your loss. I find it strange for someone to sell a gravid animal as such. Did he ship the animal to you? I hope not. It boggles my mind that a breeder would even sell a gravid reptile being as it’s a very stressful state already and changing the animals surroundings and management at such a vulnerable time. Gravid time frame is typically the time a breeder won’t sell the animal until it lays. To me, it’s just not right and you don’t see it being done by any of the reputable breeders. Most will wait until the clutch drops and the reptile goes back on food. I agree wholeheartedly with everything that Armiyana says also. I would add that it’s a very good possibility the animal passed away due to excessive stress at a vulnerable time. So sorry.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 10-13-2022 at 10:31 PM.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  8. #5
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    Nothing to add- no way to know what went wrong & not likely anything you did- she may have been sold because she was older & he expected diminishing returns (you didn't mention her age, if he told you, & no telling if he told you her true age anyway). So sorry for your sad sudden loss.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 10-13-2022 at 10:42 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  10. #6
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    No, she was a local pickup. I've had snakes shipped before but never gravid, and I knew that would be especially too stressful for her. I thought a short travel wouldn't be too bad, but maybe I was just ignorant to the amount of stress that a short trip and change of location can cause for a gravid snake... I feel so bad for her.

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  12. #7
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: HELP! Gravid Female Suddenly Passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Biddlebuddy View Post
    No, she was a local pickup. I've had snakes shipped before but never gravid, and I knew that would be especially too stressful for her. I thought a short travel wouldn't be too bad, but maybe I was just ignorant to the amount of stress that a short trip and change of location can cause for a gravid snake... I feel so bad for her.
    I just think that the seller could have sold her to you, ok. But keep the gravid female in his possession until the clutch drops, he could’ve advised you on the egg count and worked something out there as far as the incubation of the eggs. It seems as your excitement about receiving the reptile and the seller making a sale the true needs of the animal got skewed. It’s a buyer beware situation and a lesson learned for the future. Sorry again.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Albert Clark For This Useful Post:

    Armiyana (10-14-2022),Bogertophis (10-14-2022)

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