Trouble switching to the next size up of rats?

[soapapilla]

Has anyone had a snake spook at a larger rat? My BP is very voracious and has never turned down a meal before this, and I know it's bound to happen now and then, but I have been having a hard time getting him to eat lately. He weighs about 930g so I am now offering medium rats (85-149g), an upgrade from small (50-84g). I have offered, I think about 5 rats (waiting a week or two in between), and he has eaten one. With the others, although he has excitedly come out when he hears me opening the top, he usually has been initially very scared when he sees the rat, and then has shown a lot of interest again, sniffing eagerly and coming out, looking around, getting into strike pose, but never striking. If I leave it in with him overnight he will guard and sniff it all night but not eat it. He has been pretty stressed lately as I just upgraded his tank as well last month, but he seems to have settled in okay now and I've got all my temps and humidity consistent and am not rearranging anything so he seems to be back to his normal self but I am surprised he is still not eating despite showing serious interest and acting very hungry. If he is nervous from handling or other environmental stress, he usually is more hesitant to come out for a meal. Although it could be a variety of things, I'm starting to wonder if he is nervous about the size of the rat. I feel that it is an appropriate size for his body - he is a pretty thick boy these days. But he seems intimidated by it. Wondering if anyone has chosen to stick with a smaller size rodent at a greater frequency rather than sizing up for a nervous snake. I realize it's a little soon for me to worry as it's only been about a month and many of you experience much more serious food strikes, but I just feel it doesn't match his normal behavior

[Bogertophis]

Yes, definitely. What's more, male BPs don't usually need rats larger than "smalls" anyway. And it's a huge error to leave a live rodent- especially a rat!- in with a snake overnight. In fact, don't leave them alone together for any length of time- stay right there with tongs in hand, ready to intervene.

Your snake has GOOD reason to fear larger rats- he's likely gotten bit, even if you didn't know it. He could even stop eating any rats at all if you persist. I'd suggest waiting a week or so, then offering a small.

Better yet, do try to get him on f/t. Rats can seriously injure or kill snakes- ask any vet that sees snakes & has for a while- they can fill you in on the horrific injuries that rats do to snakes.

When a snake doesn't want to eat, it won't kill a rat in its enclosure- seemingly oblivious to the danger (because in the wild, they'd just move on if not hungry), but rats get hungry & all bets are off where they're concerned. They've been known to feed on snakes.

[soapapilla]

Yes, definitely. What's more, male BPs don't usually need rats larger than "smalls" anyway. And it's a huge error to leave a live rodent- especially a rat!- in with a snake overnight. In fact, don't leave them alone together for any length of time- stay right there with tongs in hand, ready to intervene.

Your snake has GOOD reason to fear larger rats- he's likely gotten bit, even if you didn't know it. He could even stop eating any rats at all if you persist. I'd suggest waiting a week or so, then offering a small.

Better yet, do try to get him on f/t. Rats can seriously injure or kill snakes- ask any vet that sees snakes & has for a while- they can fill you in on the horrific injuries that rats do to snakes.

When a snake doesn't want to eat, it won't kill a rat in its enclosure- seemingly oblivious to the danger (because in the wild, they'd just move on if not hungry), but rats get hungry & all bets are off where they're concerned. They've been known to feed on snakes.

I'm so sorry, I DO feed f/t, I just really didn't want to waste that rat 😅 Didn't realize I didn't mention that at all. That would be terrible! Thanks for the advice! I read that I should be feeding 10% of his body weight. I'm not sure if he has a lot more growing to do or not, but if you would stick with smalls, you would just feed him more frequently?

[Albert Clark]

Consider changing the way/ method that you use to thaw, warm, and present the prey to the reptile. Yes, We’ve been under the mindset that males don’t require anything larger than a small rat but in the wild they take pretty much whatever comes their way. So I don’t believe that any snake is afraid of any rat. The food chain just doesn’t seem to support that idea. The reptile is probably being more cautious and sizing up his angle of attack. I would re-evaluate how I’m presenting it to him/ her. Try increasing the interval that offer food as well.

[bcr229]

I read that I should be feeding 10% of his body weight.

For males that's really only while they're young and growing, they'll eat that weekly. Once they're over 500 grams a small rat is a big enough meal for life, and even then they won't eat weekly, maybe every 2-3 weeks on average.

[Homebody]

I think your ball python is passing on the medium rats in the hope that the more familiar small rats will return. Ball pythons are risk averse, a strategy that works well for them in the wild. Since, he does not need medium rats, I'd let him have what he wants. Start offering small rats every 10 days. Extend it to two weeks of that doesn't work.

Above all, be patient with him. Eating always poses a level of risk for them. Their ability to go long periods without eating allows them to avoid that risk. It's a survival strategy for them. So, by all means, do what you can to make him feel safe, but understand that skipping meals is natural for them. Probably healthy too.

[Bogertophis]

I'm so sorry, I DO feed f/t, I just really didn't want to waste that rat 😅 Didn't realize I didn't mention that at all. That would be terrible! Thanks for the advice! I read that I should be feeding 10% of his body weight. I'm not sure if he has a lot more growing to do or not, but if you would stick with smalls, you would just feed him more frequently?

Oh that's a relief! Snakes don't assess the size of prey very well as far as deciding beforehand what prey will "fit", but when you spoke of your snake showing fear, I assumed you meant live prey, as that certainly could make a snake fearful. Rats bite hard, once their eyes are open & the older they get. Sorry I misunderstood you.

As already noted, I'd agree that the snake's reaction might be due to improper thawing. It's essential to thaw in ways that don't allow spoilage, since your snake can smell that. BPs don't normally consume carrion.

[soapapilla]

Thank you guys very much for your help. I'm hearing that small rats should be fine (great to know, I will pick one up and see if he takes it), and that it could also be an issue with thawing. The latter was interesting to me because I actually have been experimenting with slightly different prep methods and maybe I should spend some more time making sure I'm doing this correctly. I used to, after thawing the rat in cool water, leave it under his CHE for 15 minutes to warm it up, and he loved that because it also got his tank nice and smelly and he would be very excited to eat. Now I've changed from a wire cage to a dome for his CHE and increased the wattage so I have been nervous about using it to warm rats as it gets much hotter at that distance. I have tried using a hair dryer but felt like they were cooling off very quickly and the heat wasn't penetrating enough. I've also tried putting the rat under the dome for like, 3 minutes - it gets very hot on the surface but I could still be having the same issue with not heating it all the way through. I will experiment with this a little more and find what works best. Thanks for your thoughts, all.

[Bogertophis]

Heat (or cold) transfers fastest thru water- so I thaw rodents in cool water, then once they're thoroughly soft thru-out (they pass my finger-squish test, lol), then I immerse for a few minutes in very warm water. None of my snakes are as picky as most BPs are about temperature, so at that point (in your situation) I'd add some heat with a blow dryer (especially on the rat's head, where the snake will likely target) & be sure to offer very quickly. Or keep experimenting- many of us have slightly differing methods.

[nikkubus]

I'd go back to smalls. If you have a bunch of mediums to get through with no other snake that will eat them, I'd offer them every 3-4 weeks instead and he might come around.

I agree in the wild they don't have as much choice, but they also don't have a meal on a platter offered at regular intervals. In captivity they kind of learn to expect they will have another opportunity soon and can afford to be choosier.