Can Bioactive Setups be Successful with Fake Plants?

[BonnieBallPython]

Hello,

I have a BP that's a few years old. I thought it would be cool to set up a bioactive terrarium, but I'm mostly interested in the extra protection from the cleanup-crew against mold, fungus, etc. My problem: I've never taken care of a plant before and I don't really care to, so I was wondering if anyone has had success using artificial plants in a tropical bioactive setup.

Also, for substrate I was planning on using the BioDude's Terra Firma, which says it does not require a drainage layer. Is this still true if I were to use artificial plants? I imagine live plants wouldn't be sucking that much water out of the soil, but as I said, I don't really know anything about plants... It may be worth noting I use a CHE which tends to reduce humidity and moisture anyhow (I mist regularly and keep hygrometers, don't worry!).

If anyone has experience doing this and has any tips for keeping the tank alive (well, aside from the plants), please do share.

[Malum Argenteum]

I keep one ball python (for almost 15 years) the traditional basic way -- coco chip substrate, some cork and plastic hides, a water bowl. I've not had mold in his enclosure (PVC with an RHP) once during that time. Simple cleaning (not even that frequently) is all that is necessary to avoid it.

I keep about 15 "bioactive" vivs for frogs. Most of them have some fungus much of the time; one grows a crop of mushrooms reliably every two weeks or so (they're neat). Fungus is an inherent part of bioactivity (if all the fungus on earth were to die, there would be no bioactivity at all; we'd all die too within a couple years from starvation).

The best protection against fungus in my experience is to moderate moisture levels (easy in a ball python enclosure, since the substrate can be basically dry so long as there is evaporating water to keep humidity at a decent level, and a moist hide box for the snake to go during shedding). Some substrates mold for no reason at all (Eco Earth style coco fiber does this bad), so swapping substrates might be a solution. Sounds like perhaps you're adding too much water in order to make up for shortcomings in enclosure design (just something to consider -- not intended as criticism or accusation).

[BonnieBallPython]

I keep one ball python (for almost 15 years) the traditional basic way -- coco chip substrate, some cork and plastic hides, a water bowl. I've not had mold in his enclosure (PVC with an RHP) once during that time. Simple cleaning (not even that frequently) is all that is necessary to avoid it.

I keep about 15 "bioactive" vivs for frogs. Most of them have some fungus much of the time; one grows a crop of mushrooms reliably every two weeks or so (they're neat). Fungus is an inherent part of bioactivity (if all the fungus on earth were to die, there would be no bioactivity at all; we'd all die too within a couple years from starvation).

The best protection against fungus in my experience is to moderate moisture levels (easy in a ball python enclosure, since the substrate can be basically dry so long as there is evaporating water to keep humidity at a decent level, and a moist hide box for the snake to go during shedding). Some substrates mold for no reason at all (Eco Earth style coco fiber does this bad), so swapping substrates might be a solution. Sounds like perhaps you're adding too much water in order to make up for shortcomings in enclosure design (just something to consider -- not intended as criticism or accusation).

I'm actually not having any problems with mold or fungus haha!

I should also mention I like bioactive setups for the fact that you apparently don't have to change out the substrate but once every year-to-a few years. But I suppose that might not be the case, if you're reporting fungus growth in yours?

I don't really need to go bioactive, I just think it would be cool, and I would save some money on substrate (supposedly!)

[Bogertophis]

@BonnieBallPython- I might be wrong about this (I don't do bio-active) but from reading about it, I thought that the waste from a larger snake such as a ball python was more than a bio-active set-up can process- and that you'll still need to do clean-ups, so I hope you're on the right track with this? That's with or without the question about plants.

[BonnieBallPython]

@BonnieBallPython- I might be wrong about this (I don't do bio-active) but from reading about it, I thought that the waste from a larger snake such as a ball python was more than a bio-active set-up can process- and that you'll still need to do clean-ups, so I hope you're on the right track with this? That's with or without the question about plants.

As I understand it would be more of a question of spot-cleaning? My snake's shed usually comes out in one piece and she seems to pass waste easily. I would expect to spot-clean and rely on the cleanup-crew to take care of any bits I might not see. Again, I would be interested in being able to keep the substrate for a while without changing it out.

[Malum Argenteum]

I'm actually not having any problems with mold or fungus haha!

I should also mention I like bioactive setups for the fact that you apparently don't have to change out the substrate but once every year-to-a few years. But I suppose that might not be the case, if you're reporting fungus growth in yours?

I don't really need to go bioactive, I just think it would be cool, and I would save some money on substrate (supposedly!)

The way dart frogs are kept (which other circles have imported as "Bioactive", often nonsensically and sometimes to the detriment of the species being kept) is primarily (a) to provide a supplementary food source for the frogs, some species of which forage pretty frequently, and (b) to eliminate substrate changes. On that last part, this is because many dart species don't tolerate major cleanings; they're 3/4" animals that travel about Mach 4 when startled, and they lay eggs in the top substrate layer (leaf litter). Major viv upheavals like swapping out substrate can and does kill frogs/tads/eggs. It isn't because it is simpler -- much to the contrary, if there were a simpler way than "bioactive" to get the same results a keeper would be crazy not to use it. The substrates we use (not sure about stuff that the BioDude peddles; I would be somewhat skeptical) last from ten years to forever.

Fungus growth in a dart frog enclosure doesn't indicate the need for a substrate swap (that wouldn't reduce the fungus anyway; fungus grows where it is happy, including on new damp substrate) since the fungus growth isn't due to excess waste build up, but is rather part of the bioactive process. There are literally a couple grams of animal in each cubic foot of enclosure, and the enclosure is flushed daily with copious amounts of water that leave through a bulkhead drain carrying away dissolved waste. Note that in these enclosures the plant growth is a part of the waste processing cycle. The microfauna do process some of the waste, although it is understood that much of what they eat is the fungal growth that occurs on animal waste and other decomposing material.

This is quite different from a typical ball python enclosure, which has at least a hundred times the animal mass per cubic foot of an animal that defecates infrequently but generously, and the enclosure isn't flushed with water. This would make the waste production very unlikely to be processed at all efficiently (isopods need many months to ramp up populations) and in such an enclosure substrate replacement would be necessary whether there were microfauna present or not.

At any rate, there isn't anything special about "bioactive" substrate if a person just wants some isopods and springtails. They'll live in a range of damp substrates, more damp than I keep my ball. Whether the ones they prefer would be ideal for a ball python is a different question. I keep some in gecko vivs that use Jungle Mix and some leaf litter, and they seem to do OK until they get eaten.

Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

[Bogertophis]

So for isopods & springtails with one BP, it would literally be "feast or famine"? Doesn't sound practical to me- & especially not the disposal issues- I hadn't realized that, thanks Malum Argenteum, for yet another great explanation.

[Malum Argenteum]

So for isopods & springtails with one BP, it would literally be "feast or famine"? Doesn't sound practical to me- & especially not the disposal issues- I hadn't realized that, thanks Malum Argenteum, for yet another great explanation.

Well, feast or famine to a point. Isopods will eat lots of stuff -- leaves, hardscape (this isn't good unless you want your wood pieces sanded down), bits out of some substrates probably. But their reproductive cycles are pretty slow, at least compared to springtails which can go from standby to overwhelming in a week or two with good conditions and food supply.

Yeah, the disposal issues are a problem, and regulations regarding isopods aren't widely followed. Many online isopod sellers aren't properly permitted to ship across state lines, which isn't cool. The "bug" (insects and arthropods) side of the exotics hobby is almost certainly the one that violates the most laws (USDA regulations, which are covered by Lacey) regarding possession, transport and "importation".

[plateOfFlan]

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

[plateOfFlan]

Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

This is a good note about the pods I wasn't aware of, thanks!