First time clutch, Genetics questions regarding bananas and help IDing!

[ReaverGirl]

Ok so i have done a lot of homework and i just want to confirm what i think i have learned, and have a. Discussion about the “whys” of it all!

So parents of the clutch are a male banana to a female BEL (moj x lesser). My understanding is that the male banana gene passed will most likely guarantee that any bananas im the clutch are also male (unless i happen to have a female-maker male snake). So according to calculator i should get 25% each a banana x lesser, banana x mojave, lesser x normal, and a mojave x normal.

so….they had four eggs (her first clutch and it was small, four eggs and a slug). So heres my first question…if there are four offspring does that specifically mean that i definitely get one of each of those four choices? Or does it mean that each of the eggs has a 1 in 4 chance to be any of those.

so now help me ID my clutch! The lighter one looks like a banana lesser, so i am assuming male. I am also assuming this is the lesser mainly on the fact that it does not look like the mojave side pattern.

theres another darker baby that does not really look like it has a mojave side pattern, but its also not particularly golden looking, so is this the lesser x normal?

the last two that have the mojave patterns looks just like mojave x normals, i dont think they look light enough to be banana x mojaves.

Thoughts? Again i am brand new to hobby breeding and i have been doing a lot of homework on the genetics, but i am still trying to really understand all of it and i definitely am a novice in trying to ID particular physical traits when the hatchlings are actually here. Thanks for the help!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qkF...w?usp=drivesdk

[Armiyana]

Each snake is a 1 in 4 chance. And even then, sometimes the odds gods don't care.

For example, last year I bred a mojave special enchi pastel to a lesser super pastel spider.
The results:
2.0 Mojave lesser pastel spider
1.0 mojave lesser pastel
1.0 Special lesser pastel
All boys.... all lesser. I was hoping for a female BEL.... well... opps.

This year out of 6 eggs, the same male to a coral glow (banana) mojave fire (both are actually het orange ghost as well)
1 in 4 eggs should have been Orange Ghost. I ended up with 3.
4 of the babies are Coral Glow.


I think the lighting is a bit dark, but what I can make out looks like:
Dark mojave
Lesser underneath the mojave
a lighter color mojave (is there maybe pastel in the BEL?)
And a banana lesser.
As for the sex of the banana, even a male maker has a 3-5% chance to throw a female from time to time. So it's not always exact. Just not as likely. =)

[Armiyana]

Also, one of the weird tricks I picked up is using a mag light to look for Coral Glow in BELs. If you hold the light to the top of the head, the pupil on a BEL complex will glow Red. It will on a regular mojave or lesser also. If the snake has banana, the entire eye will glow Red.
Here's a MorphMarket post with examples:
https://community.morphmarket.com/t/...so-banana/2717

[ReaverGirl]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FTS...w?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-yC...w?usp=drivesdk

Here are two better pictures showing that I think I have two lessers, one of which is banana lesser. And in the second one it looks like I just have two Mojave’s where one is more silvery and less Brown.

So with the jeans, each egg has a one in four chance to be one of those possibilities? I’ll totally end up with four mojaves?, or two and two of something in a clutch like this? Other threads that I have read made it sound like you would pretty much get that ratio across the board, almost like the parents had to give one of each of their genes and not that it was randomized.

[ReaverGirl]

So in this article it specifically mentions banana genes turning red with the eyes in a BEL. Will the eyes turn red like this with ANY snake with a banana gene? And are there any other morphs that do the same res behind the eye result? That’s super interesting!

[nikkubus]

There are a few misconceptions that need to be cleared up.

1. Were you told your Banana male is a male maker? If not, it could be a female maker and these will produce different results sex wise.

Male maker Banana will usually produce all Banana males, but there is a small chance (I can't remember the odds, maybe 1/40?) it will produce a male non-Banana or female Banana. A female maker will be the exact opposite. A female Banana will work similar to female maker male. So more than likely you have either 3.1 or 1.3, 1.3 being the most likely because male makers are more prevalent.

2. Odds are just that, odds. There is no guarantee you will get an equal amount of the possibilities. It's what to expect on average, but almost never will you get the exact prediction because that is statistically improbable. Though there are some things you can guarantee because of limited options, like with a BEL parent, every single OS *must* have one or the other of the genes that make it.


BEL can easily mask other morphs, and in this case, I think there is a good chance it did. I see a Lesser, a Banana Lesser, a Mojave, and then Mojave + ?. That last one looks similar to Mojave Pastel (Pastave) so there is a good chance that's what it is. If you have any information about the parents of the BEL, that might help confirm.

[Armiyana]

So in this article it specifically mentions banana genes turning red with the eyes in a BEL. Will the eyes turn red like this with ANY snake with a banana gene? And are there any other morphs that do the same res behind the eye result? That’s super interesting!

It works with other genes as well from what I've tested.
The only other gene that would react that way would most likely be albino since it also changes the melanin pigments in ways similar to Banana/coral glow.

[Argentum]

I tried it on my Banana Fire Bee adult, and it was harder to see than in a hatchling, but his entire eye had a dark ruby glow. On my multigene non-BEL hatchling that was listed as 'Pos. Banana' by the seller, the entire eye glowed a distinct luminescent ruby. I also tried it on my adult Ultrafly, and even her pupil didn't glow noticeably, let alone the rest of her eye. I don't have a non-Banana hatchling to test it on for comparison. However, based on my own experience, I would say that it works on other snakes with the Banana gene.

Edited to add a photo of my Banana Fire Bee's eye under normal light - absolutely no red/ruby. Since it's just me, I can't get a photo of it backlit to show the ruby color.

[ReaverGirl]

Yeah unfortunately i dont have any detailed info about these parents from either side. Male is the banana (not sure if theres anything hiding in his genes but i doubt it. He looks like a plain old banana). The female i got at a show was marked as a BEL (mojave x lesser). Thats all the info i got on genetics themselves.

so the lighter one is maybe a possible pastave? Meaning a pos. pastel x mojave? Is the lighter color meaning that its def not a mojave x normal then?

[nikkubus]

Definitely something besides just Mojave in the lighter one, just not 100% sure it's Pastel. If it were just lighter color, I've seen some pretty light Mojaves, but the blushing, the less variation from dorsal color to side pattern color, and the contrast to the sibling makes me think Pastel or some other lightening morph.