Humid Hide, Handling BP & Introduction

[D-.No]

Hey Guys, my name is Dino. I’ve perusing on the boards for a bit and it’s been great!

I have always had an enthusiastic amount of reptile and amphibian love/experience especially when was I was young. Obsessed with reading, field collecting and non-profit educational zoos.


Of recent I was struck with some bad luck of losing my dog, my five year marriage, my stepdaughter and an injury that das been affecting me greatly half my life but the really bad for the last a year and a half. Undergoing a couple surgeries this year and decided to get a Ball python for some company. I am determined to make this snake super docile. Considering it’ll be positive therapy animal during my down time she’s the only pet I can take care of myself at the moment.


And I feel like I got the perfect BP! She seems kind, doofy, Definitely not overaggressive for 1 1/2 month old (she hissed first feed and gave me a peck) and very beautiful. Her name is Roxy (Roxanne).


One thing I did forgot about having reptiles is the patience. Which I am no longer, I operate a New York restaurant.


At times I am way over concerned about her well-being even though I had her habitat ready weeks before she arrived, temporarily it’s probably a little too big. She seems fine and healthy, The oddest thing about her sometimes she awkwardly forces herself to be in the warmest part of the enclosure which is really hot.


My big concern is how much of the boss do I show a snake? Like right now I think she is going into early sheaf. After the last handling i persuaded her into a humid hide for the first time (finally I thought) and as far as I know she has not left since. The Sphagnum moss Is definitely drying out. I tried to feed her last night and she wasn’t having it and she seemed pretty pissed off at me for bothering her. I know she doesn’t like the spray bottle but I gave a couple squirts inside the hide.


Am I being too passive? Or should I get her out of the hide and adjust it as needed and let her figure it out or maybe use it as an opportunity to handle her again?


Or leave her alone until she either presents herself that she’s not in shed or completes the process?

FYI- This is not only my first Ball python but my first baby
snake.

[Bogertophis]

Welcome Dino- I'm glad you finally came out of the shadows, lol. And congratulations for choosing a snake as a quiet companion. I find them to be quite congenial, & relaxing, but you'll have to learn some patience because they do things in 'snake time'. Sounds like your life has been rough lately -so sorry about your losses. Let's hope Roxy is the start of things turning around for you with better things to come.

For us to help you- you need to accurately take the temps in the enclosure where your snake is. If your snake is always in the warmest part, that suggests it might not be warm enough, but don't assume & crank it up- get some readings on the cage floor with substrate pushed away (if using UTH); you want it at or below 90* at the most.

You haven't had her very long, so you need to minimize HER stress, which means you should AVOID taking her out of her hide forcefully or even excessive handling until she's eaten at least 3 times at normal intervals (roughly once a week), unless in shed (when it's normal for them to refuse food). Snakes in shed definitely do NOT want to be handled, so leave her alone as much as possible. I know how frustrating that is when you have only one pet & wish to connect, but that's what you signed on for. Snakes will be snakes. Since she's staying inside the humid hide, I'd just spray into the opening as best you can.

It's not about being a snake's "boss"- we're not & never will be. They're wild animals that listen to their own instincts- the best we can do is show them (thru respectful treatment) that they're safe with us. Snakes feel unsafe (where predators can get them!) when out in the open, so when I hold my snakes, I generally cuddle them close to me, rather than holding them out in the open which I know is scary for them. They also don't really identify us visually- so don't take it personal if your snake snaps at you from the other side of the glass (or plexi, or whatever)- they need more cues (our scent & touch) to recognize us.

"Baby" snakes are more fearful of us because they're small & many things prey on them. Bites are either self-defense (can't blame them, we're GIANTS) or food confusion. Remember that the only thing that picks them up in nature is a predator about to eat THEM, so be patient & don't over-do handling- feeding regularly is "job #1" for a while. Like any baby, they need to grow & gain strength for a while- coming to a new home is confusing for them, so it's also very stressful & stress lowers their immune system, just as it does for us. Just like us, if they're overly stressed they can become sick from whatever they've been exposed to previously- things they might otherwise have fought off if left to rest more. So my advice with any new snake is "easy does it". Do more watching than handling for a while- they grow very slow so "taming" is not a priority.

And don't bother trying to feed her when she's in shed- it's normal for them not to eat at that time- & since both digestion & shedding uses up the water in their bodies to accomplish, some snakes do not do both at the same time very well. Some snakes- if they do accept food while in shed (many won't) will then have a "bad shed" where they need some help to remove the zillions of stuck pieces. So like I said, go with the flow- don't push food when you know she's in shed. If you accidentally feed her sometime & then realize she's clouding up, don't panic- but I just try to avoid doing that, for best results.

[D-.No]

Thanks for the great and reassuring response. For the most part she seems really comfortable in her assorted hides. Humidity and heat gradient seems good. Since I have your ear, the other day would’ve been her third time eating and her first time with frozen. Would you keep her on live for a couple more feelings? She seemed hesitant to kill and we’ll wait for me to play/tease

thanks!

[Bogertophis]

Thanks for the great and reassuring response. For the most part she seems really comfortable in her assorted hides. Humidity and heat gradient seems good. Since I have your ear, the other day would’ve been her third time eating and her first time with frozen. Would you keep her on live for a couple more feelings? She seemed hesitant to kill and we’ll wait for me to play/tease

thanks!

I assume you meant the third time she has fed for you? Most breeders have fed the snake prior to selling them- do you happen to know what she was started on? Maybe she was already ON f/t- that would explain her response. (Any time you acquire a snake, it's important to find out what they've been fed, etc.)

Some (many) snakes need to eat live at first to get the right instinctive response, just until they learn to recognize their prey- then they often switch to pre-killed (p/k, either fresh or frozen/thawed- f/t) pretty easily. But if your snake hesitates to make kills, & happily eats p/k, then no, I wouldn't keep feeding her live- enjoy how easy the switch has been for her. P/K is much better (safer, more humane, etc).

[D-.No]

Yes it would’ve been the third time but she refused it. I made the attempt because I do want to wean her off live, the breeder had her on small live rats by the time I got her.
The second time I fed her she killed the feeder but not eat it until I made a couple attempts teasing her and she eventually took it.
I thought why not try prekilled if she’s already excepted it once before.
I left the carcass by her hide for 40 min, She didn’t bother with it so I threw it out. I will see how she fares with the next attempt either tomorrow or the next day

[Bogertophis]

Yes it would’ve been the third time but she refused it. I made the attempt because I do want to wean her off live, the breeder had her on small live rats by the time I got her.
The second time I fed her she killed the feeder but not eat it until I made a couple attempts teasing her and she eventually took it.
I thought why not try prekilled if she’s already excepted it once before.
I left the carcass by her hide for 40 min, She didn’t bother with it so I threw it out. I will see how she fares with the next attempt either tomorrow or the next day

Oh, I see- I misunderstood. If you've been reading threads here for a while, you know that adding some heat* to the prey is often needed to fool BPs into accepting dead prey, along with a subtle jiggle using feeding tongs. (*a blow dryer is very convenient & fast for this purpose) Sometimes even when snakes kill the feeder themselves, it cools off & they end up losing interest. I'd have done the same thing- tease her into taking it if possible. You won't win all the battles though- so get over it, lol.

It's very possible the reason she refused it was because she knew (she could feel) that she was going into shed. They know before we can see any signs of a shed, so sometimes you just have to take your snake's "word" for it. And didn't you just say you think she's going into shed now? If so, you shouldn't be offering food at this time- wait until after she sheds, even if it's a couple weeks from now by the time she's done. That is normal- & they don't eat during shed in the wild- they don't have room service, & they don't hunt when they're blind (in shed).

Also, when a snake refuses food- do NOT keep offering- it only stresses them into refusing. Just wait a week to offer again- and ONLY IF they're not in shed. Remember, "patience"... Relax...you'll get this.

[D-.No]

Thanks so much. Maybe her color faded a bit and her last meal was a good one. I just haven’t seen any cloudy or blue eyes. I just know she’s due for her age and her behavior is def a little more on edge since found her humid hide.
Like I said initially, I really need to exercise my patience.

[D-.No]

Thanks. I’ve read and reread care sheets but it’s just me and Roxy and there are times I’ve gotten a little concerned I’m not reading her correctly. I do appreciate all the feedback and welcoming me to the boards.
it’s helped a lot!

And yes the other night with her head sticking out of her humid hive I noticed the skin around her neck looks much different than it did the other day.

At the moment she’s not really interested anything but hiding so I gave her some extra moist Sphagnum moss I’m her wet hide and just give her some time.

[Bogertophis]

Thanks. I’ve read and reread care sheets but it’s just me and Roxy and there are times I’ve gotten a little concerned I’m not reading her correctly. I do appreciate all the feedback and welcoming me to the boards.
it’s helped a lot!

And yes the other night with her head sticking out of her humid hive I noticed the skin around her neck looks much different than it did the other day.

At the moment she’s not really interested anything but hiding so I gave her some extra moist Sphagnum moss I’m her wet hide and just give her some time.

By the way, I assume that's Roxy in your avatar, & you should know that the lighter colored snakes like yours (& albinos, especially) are the HARDEST to tell when they're going into shed- that "milky-look" doesn't show up very well because of their normal coloration. So look for that "texture change" and appetite loss (food refusal) as signs. That's excellent that you did notice her neck looked different- it's hard to explain that change to people.

Also, something that confuses many if not most new snake-owners is the shedding "time-line": Snakes cloud up, then they gradually "go clear" for a while before they actually shed- & by that I mean their body secretes moisture between the old skin that's coming off & the new skin underneath, & it's that moisture that makes their tissue-paper-like old skin appear like normal, with the colors more clear again. So many people think their snake must have shed when it actually hasn't, & then when they can't find the old skin, they wonder why, or they try to feed their snake again before it actually shed, & wonder why it won't eat. See?

So you have to wait for your snake to actually shed, after they "go clear"- and it takes as long as it takes- if your snake has fed recently, it can take longer, because both digestion & shedding are competing for moisture in their body. Snakes aren't that good at multi-tasking- And if nothing else, they teach us to pay attention & be patient.

[D-.No]

Wow. You rock! I didn’t notice your response till today but after Roxy had been in her wet hid for over a week she finally has come fully out. Right now she’s chilling inside her log which is technically not a hide, just an additional place for enrichment. She looks slightly bigger but there is no shed.
I didn’t bother her and lift the log or pick her up assuming she is still in the process.

Happy I got to go in her wet hide and properly treat the moss again. Hoping tonight she does some work and gets out of those old clothes lol

But it is tough because she was stashed in a hide a lot longer than I could’ve imagined, I kept on smelling for death (or poop) and was very thankful she started popping her head out the past couple days.

So true about the light color. Right before her second meal I noticed her getting a little dull nothing in the eyes. After a few days in the humid hide I could notice a little transition in the lens.

I’m getting surgery in a little more than a week so I really want to see some skin and some poop before I go under the knife.