Strange behavior inside new enclosure.

[egsnow]

I have a BEL that's about 2 months old. She did a 30 quarantine in a tub with no issues, no strange behaviors or anything. I try not to handle her that much this early in her life, but when I do she's extremely chill, curious, and doesn't show any of the following behaviors. When she want in her tub on paper towels, she didn't show any of the following behaviors either. I got her a 24"x19"x12" enclosure from Animal plastics, she has a Pro Heat radiant heat panel that Bob recommended for the size of the enclosure she's in she even has belly heat on that side of the enclosure to help with the temperature inside her warm side hide. Her temperatures are pretty much textbook, and the humidity is between 55-62% according to two different hygrometers placed in two different areas of the enclosure. There is plenty of cover for her and things for her to climb on since she seems to think she's an arboreal snake. The substrate I'm using is Reptile Prime until she's big enough to upgrade to a larger size enclosure and I can set her up in a BioActive environment. I know that BELs are pretty much free from any genetic defects. This usually only happens for the first few minutes after I put her inside her enclosure, but she wobbles around like she's crazy and rubs her head and body against all of her hides and enrichment. She doesn't have any mites, her breathing is silent, and she's doesn't have any mucus, or any issues with her cloaca, or anything that I can see, hear, or feel that's wrong with her. Her last shed was about 2-3 weeks ago and she's not in blue. Is there something that I could be doing wrong with her enclosure, or is this normal behavior for young snakes in a new environment with different smells? Like I said, it has only happens in her new enclosure on this new substrate and it usually only lasts for about 5 to 10 minutes before she finds a spot to hide and go to sleep. When she was in a plastic tub on paper towels, she never acted that way. When I have to handle her or choose to handle her she doesn't act that way.

[Argentum]

I can't offer any expert advice on the behavior, but just a note; Whether a BEL has any gene-related problems depends entirely on what went into it. Lesser x Lesser creates a BEL that can be prone to bug-eyes, but obviously that would be visible. However, under that pretty white could be any number of genes that aren't visible. What you're describing doesn't sound like Spider-complex wobble to me, though, which is the only 'wobbling' behavior I'm personally familiar with. Honestly, it sounds more like some kind of airborne irritant, such as chemical fumes, just in my own inexperienced response to the description of her behavior.

[Armiyana]

A couple questions first....
What are the temps in the enclosure? you list the humidity range but not the hot and cool spots. Textbook isn't always that clear.

Does she have a gene related to neurological issues in her parentage like spider, champagne, or woma? I wouldn't quite say BELs are free of defects, but that's more for a long term breeding standpoint not a casual ownership. Typically related to eye issues when the wrong genes are crossed.

When you say wobble, is it just the little bit of shaking when she lifts her head and is exploring? Because that can just be normal behavior. There's a lot of muscle action and thinking going on. A lot of people are very quick to judge on any little movement of the head as a neurological issue. Yes, it can happen in incubation issues. Yes, extreme temps can cause them. But for it to happen for an isolated 10 minute time span I think is a bit strange unless your animal is under extreme stress.

That said...It sounds like she's just exploring and getting used to the new digs. The smell of the substrate can definitely be a factor. I honestly just think she's excited to explore. They'll push and try to find a crack or a seam and think they can escape. it happens. Sure it looks a bit weird at first. A lot of times we worry and expect the worst. It happens. If she was my girl, I would make note of times I see this sort of behavior and see if there maybe is a cause. Like an airborne irritant as Argentum said.

I hope it's something that just happens a few more times and that's that because she's figured out her safe place.

[egsnow]

I can't offer any expert advice on the behavior, but just a note; Whether a BEL has any gene-related problems depends entirely on what went into it. Lesser x Lesser creates a BEL that can be prone to bug-eyes, but obviously that would be visible. However, under that pretty white could be any number of genes that aren't visible. What you're describing doesn't sound like Spider-complex wobble to me, though, which is the only 'wobbling' behavior I'm personally familiar with. Honestly, it sounds more like some kind of airborne irritant, such as chemical fumes, just in my own inexperienced response to the description of her behavior.

I don’t think it’s head wobble because she doesn’t do it any other time and has no problem keeping her head erect and perfectly still when she sees something that interests her. She can be a bit clumsy sometimes but I just assumed that it’s because she’s so young and hasn’t really figured out how to used her body completely yet. I don’t know what airborne irritants she could be smelling because the sealant cured for over a week and I cleaned it thoroughly and then cleaned it again with just water in order to make sure there was no abrasive chemicals or smells in there for her. The only thing that’s new to her in that enclosure aside from the enclosure itself is the heat panel and the substrate. Everything else came from her tub after it was cleaned, rinsed, and dried. Do you think it might be the substrate?

[egsnow]

A couple questions first....
What are the temps in the enclosure? you list the humidity range but not the hot and cool spots. Textbook isn't always that clear.

Does she have a gene related to neurological issues in her parentage like spider, champagne, or woma? I wouldn't quite say BELs are free of defects, but that's more for a long term breeding standpoint not a casual ownership. Typically related to eye issues when the wrong genes are crossed.

When you say wobble, is it just the little bit of shaking when she lifts her head and is exploring? Because that can just be normal behavior. There's a lot of muscle action and thinking going on. A lot of people are very quick to judge on any little movement of the head as a neurological issue. Yes, it can happen in incubation issues. Yes, extreme temps can cause them. But for it to happen for an isolated 10 minute time span I think is a bit strange unless your animal is under extreme stress.

That said...It sounds like she's just exploring and getting used to the new digs. The smell of the substrate can definitely be a factor. I honestly just think she's excited to explore. They'll push and try to find a crack or a seam and think they can escape. it happens. Sure it looks a bit weird at first. A lot of times we worry and expect the worst. It happens. If she was my girl, I would make note of times I see this sort of behavior and see if there maybe is a cause. Like an airborne irritant as Argentum said.

I hope it's something that just happens a few more times and that's that because she's figured out her safe place.

90° warm side, 79° cool side.

No, she’s just a Mojave Lesser.


Yeah, only happens when she first gets put into that particular enclosure and she goes to explore it for about 5 to 10 minutes. Never happened in the tub or even when being handled whenever she goes to explore. What could cause that kind of stress?


Would you recommend I wait about a month and see if the behavior continues and then if it does switch her back to paper towels or something? Or do you think maybe the heat panel could be causing a smell from the fake plants?

[Homebody]

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[plateOfFlan]

When I got my second BP as a 3 month old she used to do something similar - right after handling she'd zoom around her enclosure. I was never sure if she was overheated or maybe overstimulated from handling. In any case they seem to be disoriented when they first go back in their bin, so what I do now when I put them back is (gently) direct their head right into one of the hides. Sometimes they come right back out but it seems to help them orientate - if I just plop them back in they tend to race around in confusion. I don't know how good their mental map of their enclosure is because they seem to be confused every time unless I show them the entrance right in front of their face.

[Bogertophis]

....I don’t know what airborne irritants she could be smelling because the sealant cured for over a week and I cleaned it thoroughly and then cleaned it again with just water in order to make sure there was no abrasive chemicals or smells in there for her. The only thing that’s new to her in that enclosure aside from the enclosure itself is the heat panel and the substrate. Everything else came from her tub after it was cleaned, rinsed, and dried. Do you think it might be the substrate?

FYI, by "sealant" do you mean the silicone aquarium-type sealant? It gives off highly-irritating acidic (vinegar-like) fumes & can take LONGER than a week to cure, depending on how thickly it's applied. It dries slowly from the "outside" meaning the thicker you apply it, the longer it takes for it to dry all the way through. Remember our snakes have a more sensitive "nose" than we do.
Cleaning- wiping sealant won't make it cure any faster- only time & ventilation will.

Heat panels are known to off-gas when new- most ppl say they break them in on high heat to get rid of the odors before ever using them with the snake in residence.

Substrate- who knows? Possible, I guess, but that wouldn't be my first guess. Sealant & heat panel are tied for my "first place" guess.

[egsnow]

When I got my second BP as a 3 month old she used to do something similar - right after handling she'd zoom around her enclosure. I was never sure if she was overheated or maybe overstimulated from handling. In any case they seem to be disoriented when they first go back in their bin, so what I do now when I put them back is (gently) direct their head right into one of the hides. Sometimes they come right back out but it seems to help them orientate - if I just plop them back in they tend to race around in confusion. I don't know how good their mental map of their enclosure is because they seem to be confused every time unless I show them the entrance right in front of their face.

Yeah I usually try to set my hand down gently right in entry way of her warm hide. She usually crawls off my hand and goes right into her hide but spends a few seconds in there before zooming around the enclosure like she's Stevie Wonder behind a piano. It's odd behavior. She's usually facing the enclosure when I put her back in it so I would think she realizes what's going on. And she almost always comes back toward the glass like she wants to come back out or something. I left the glass open once and she crawled right back out onto my arm, but I don't want to handle her too much.

[egsnow]

FYI, by "sealant" do you mean the silicone aquarium-type sealant? It gives off highly-irritating acidic (vinegar-like) fumes & can take LONGER than a week to cure, depending on how thickly it's applied. It dries slowly from the "outside" meaning the thicker you apply it, the longer it takes for it to dry all the way through. Remember our snakes have a more sensitive "nose" than we do.
Cleaning- wiping sealant won't make it cure any faster- only time & ventilation will.

Heat panels are known to off-gas when new- most ppl say they break them in on high heat to get rid of the odors before ever using them with the snake in residence.

Substrate- who knows? Possible, I guess, but that wouldn't be my first guess. Sealant & heat panel are tied for my "first place" guess.

I used the Lexel sealant by Sastacho because that's what Animal Plastics sent me with the enclosure. I just did a thin bead and ran my finger across it so it wasn't thick at all. The instructions said it would be good in 2-3 days but I left it there over a week, roughly 10-11 days before I even cleaned the enclosure and even then she didn't go into it immediately because I wanted to make sure her temperatures and humidity were all good before I put her in there. Given the amount of time that the sealant had to cure, I don't think it could be the sealant.

I did not know that about radiant heat panels though so I didn't do that with hers. I just found the perfect setting to get her temperatures just right. Do you think I should take her out and crank it up to gas it out before returning her to the enclosure? If so, how long should I let it do that and air out before I return her back to this enclosure?