Vote for BP.Net for the 2013 Forum of the Year! Click here for more info.

» Site Navigation

» Home
 > FAQ

» Online Users: 3,110

0 members and 3,110 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 6,337, 01-24-2020 at 04:30 AM.

» Today's Birthdays

None

» Stats

Members: 75,031
Threads: 248,489
Posts: 2,568,442
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
Welcome to our newest member, isismomma
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16
  1. #11
    BPnet Veteran Ronniex2's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-11-2017
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 81 Times in 60 Posts
    Images: 53

    Re: Recessive Question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    Sperm from two donors do not combine. Under normal conditions, a fertilized egg results from either the pastel clown's sperm or the spider's sperm. NOT both males' sperm. If two fertilized eggs have different genes but are inside the same eggshell, you are likely to get a paradox snake.

    One of the most common mistakes in beginning genetics is to assume that two gene pairs are only one gene pair. I see this pretty often in herper genetics forums.

    In the following problems, pastel, clown, spider and pied are independent genes. The pastel gene and the corresponding normal gene are at the pastel locus. The clown gene and the corresponding normal gene are at the clown locus. And so on.
    Gene pair 1 = pastel locus
    Gene pair 2 = clown locus
    Gene pair 3 = spider locus (sex-linked)
    Gene pair 4 = pied locus

    Pastel clown x het clown is a two gene pair problem.

    pastel clown:
    gene pair 1 = pastel mutant gene and normal gene
    gene pair 2 = 2 clown mutant genes

    het pastel:
    gene pair 1 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 2 = 1 normal gene and 1 clown gene

    pastel clown x het pastel produces
    1/4 pastel clown
    1/4 pastel (het clown)
    1/4 clown
    1/4 normal looking (het clown)

    Spider x het clown is a two gene pair problem.

    spider:
    gene pair 1 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 2 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 3 = spider mutant gene and normal gene

    het clown:
    gene pair 1 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 2 = 1 normal gene and 1 clown gene
    gene pair 3 = 2 normal genes

    As gene pair 1 (the pastel locus) in both male and female have two normal genes, it can be ignored. Using only gene pairs 2 and 3 makes this a 2 gene pair problem.

    spider x het clown produces
    1/4 spider (mostly males)
    1/4 spider (het clown) (mostly males)
    1/4 normal (mostly females)
    1/4 normal looking (het clown) (mostly females)


    Pastel clown x pied is a three gene pair problem.

    Pastel clown:
    gene pair 1 = pastel mutant gene and normal gene
    gene pair 2 = 2 clown mutant genes
    gene pair 3 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 4 = 2 normal genes

    pied:
    gene pair 1 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 2 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 3 = 2 normal genes
    gene pair 4 = 2 pied genes

    As gene pair 3 (the spider locus) in both male and female have two normal genes, it can be ignored. Using only gene pairs 1, 2 and 3 makes this a 3 gene pair problem.

    Pastel clown x pied produces
    1/2 pastel (het clown and het pied)
    1/2 normal looking (het clown and het pied)
    (All babies will be 100 Het clown /100 Het pied.)

    Clear as mud?
    Truly appreciated


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #12
    BPnet Veteran Ronniex2's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-11-2017
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 81 Times in 60 Posts
    Images: 53

    Re: Recessive Question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erie_herps View Post
    Since the twins aren't genetically identical they probably had to have had different sperm cells to fertilize them. So I think there could be two sires if there were two snakes in an egg.
    Yes I believe I seen this writer in retic’s or maybe even in BP but definitely saw it and me being an identical twin I was lil Obsessed worth the thought here if you get my drift


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #13
    BPnet Veteran Ronniex2's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-11-2017
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 81 Times in 60 Posts
    Images: 53

    Re: Recessive Question(s)

    So the best odds did happen …
    the spider didn’t seem to get the job done,
    the Pastel/Clown I paired her with did …
    proved her out to be 100% with amazing odds as I got 1.1- clown, 0.4 -pastel/clowns, 1.1- normal (1 egg did go bad early in incubation so we don’t know if it would’ve been pastel or another clown)


    And to clear things up on the Initial question…
    Hets are what scared me away the first time I had to spin my head around it all, not I’m learning that In order to get 66% you have to have both parents be 100%?
    So you get the visual(s) if they prove out, but babies will all be 66% het correct ?
    So where the guy with the 100%Het monarch is going to call his babies 50%, how if he isn’t proven ? And the dame is no % of monarch or even Poss? So if I mate my “whatever”/Het clown (I know some genes have play here with sex as well but stay with me here)
    with Normal (or whatever gene) all the off spring will be 66% or 50% Het clown ?? Or not at all?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Ronniex2 For This Useful Post:

    Albert Clark (11-03-2022)

  5. #14
    BPnet Veteran Ronniex2's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-11-2017
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 81 Times in 60 Posts
    Images: 53

    Re: Recessive Question(s)




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ronniex2 For This Useful Post:

    Albert Clark (11-03-2022)

  7. #15
    BPnet Veteran Ronniex2's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-11-2017
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 81 Times in 60 Posts
    Images: 53

    Re: Recessive Question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronniex2 View Post



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The 4 pastel clown was in shed when I took the group pic and the 1.1 clowns are gone now so no chance at it again lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #16
    BPnet Veteran
    Join Date
    08-31-2011
    Posts
    647
    Thanks
    193
    Thanked 425 Times in 261 Posts
    Images: 21

    Re: Recessive Question(s)

    [QUOTE=Ronniex2;2777343]So the best odds did happen …
    the spider didn’t seem to get the job done,
    the Pastel/Clown I paired her with did …
    proved her out to be 100% with amazing odds as I got 1.1- clown, 0.4 -pastel/clowns, 1.1- normal (1 egg did go bad early in incubation so we don’t know if it would’ve been pastel or another clown)


    And to clear things up on the Initial question…
    Hets are what scared me away the first time I had to spin my head around it all, not I’m learning that In order to get 66% you have to have both parents be 100%?
    So you get the visual(s) if they prove out, but babies will all be 66% het correct ?
    So where the guy with the 100%Het monarch is going to call his babies 50%, how if he isn’t proven ? And the dame is no % of monarch or even Poss? So if I mate my “whatever”/Het clown (I know some genes have play here with sex as well but stay with me here)
    with Normal (or whatever gene) all the off spring will be 66% or 50% Het clown ?? Or not at all?
    /QUOTE]
    Congrats on your babies!

    I missed the question earlier, so will try to answer them now.

    100% het means that it is known for certain that a given individual is a het. In the following, unless somehow qualified, a het animal is known for certain to be het.

    het clown x het clown produces
    1/4 normal (2 normal genes)
    2/4 looks normal (normal gene and clown gene = het clown)
    1/4 clown (2 clown genes)
    (These are expected results. Actual results can vary just from the luck of the draw.)

    Think of this as a pie that is divided into 4 pieces--1 normal piece, 2 het clown pieces, and 1 clown piece. Take away the clown piece. That leaves 3 pieces that look alike. Pick any single piece from those three pieces, and your chance of picking a het clown piece is 2 out of three (2/3 = 66% rounded down). And your chance of picking the normal piece is 1 out of 3 (1/3 = 33% rounded down). You can verify this with three equal-sized pieces of paper marked het, het, and normal and drawing one from a hat. Repeat until satisfied.

    In the above mating, only the normal looking babies are 66% probability hets. The clown babies are known to have 2 clown genes.

    In other words, to get 66% probability hets, both parents be hets (aka 100% hets). A 66% probability het only stays that way until it goes into a proper breeding test. The test changes classification to either het or normal.

    monarch (2 monarch genes) x normal (2 normal genes) produces
    1/1 (100%) looks normal (1 monarch gene and 1 normal gene = het monarch)
    (This is both the expected and actual result.)

    The monarch parent MUST give each baby a monarch gene. The normal parent MUST give each baby a normal gene. A baby with a gene pair made up of one monarch gene and one normal gene is the definition of a het monarch. The babies are proven het monarch by pedigree.

    Alternative mating:
    monarch (2 monarch genes) x normal looking het monarch (1 normal gene and one monarch gene) produces
    1/2 (50%) looks normal (1 monarch gene and 1 normal gene = het monarch)
    1/2 (50%) monarch (2 monarch genes)
    (These are expected results. Actual results can vary just from the luck of the draw.)

    As monarch snakes do not look normal, the normal looking babies are proven to be het monarch by predigree.

    het monarch (one normal gene and one monarch gene) x normal (2 normal genes) produces
    1/2 (50%) of the babies are het and look normal (one normal gene and one monarch gene)
    1/2 (50%) of the babies are normal (2 normal genes)
    (These are expected results. Actual results can vary just from the luck of the draw.)

    The normal parent MUST give every baby a normal gene.
    Half of the het monarch male's sperm cells have a monarch gene and half of the sperm cells have a normal gene.

    Going to the pie analogy, there are two pieces on the plate. One is het and the other is normal, but they look alike so both pieces are marked 50% probability het. A proper breeding test will change the classification to either het or normal.

    Hope that helps.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to paulh For This Useful Post:

    Bogertophis (11-14-2022),Ronniex2 (11-19-2022)

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1