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  1. #1
    Registered User supremenoser's Avatar
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    Unhappy Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    Hey there, so we have had an awful month in this house, my roommate recently took in a bearded dragon from a friend who just wasn't able to take care of him very well. He was healthy and had plenty of fat, nothing wrong other than being a little bit dehydrated. Once my roommate started taking care of him properly he ate just fine and he was totally active and normal. Everything has been totally good until suddenly a couple of hours ago we found him dead in his cage. He was kinda looking at the glass and his mouth was open with sand in it. His beard was also black and his eyes were super bulged out. We have no idea what could've happened because everything was totally fine just earlier today and now he's suddenly dead. I'm also very worried because I had a neglected ball python that died quickly a couple weeks ago (Here's the thread about him:https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...d-corkscrewing! ) and the fear is that we have some kind of virus or something in the house. The two animals were kept on different floors of the house and they never had any kind of contact but I'm very concerned about bringing any more animals into the house now. My roommate also just mentioned as I'm typing this that he ate 5 Dubai roaches in one sitting, he really wanted them but could that have caused impaction? We're so lost for any answers as to how this could've happened. He was about 5 years old and he had UV-B and a good tank set up for all his life as far as we know. If anybody has any advice or knowledge we would so appreciate it. It's so awful to lose a pet so my roommate wants to make sure nothing like this happens again and I want to make sure it wasn't some kind of disease that was brought into the house.

    Here are pictures of his tank and his corpse.

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    https://ibb.co/h14ywv8
    https://ibb.co/thCwyfk
    https://ibb.co/nkzWLf8
    https://ibb.co/QpLh5g7

  2. #2
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    Wow! So sorry for your loss! Again! Looks from the yellowish coloration of his body that it’s possibly Yellow Fungus Disease. Common disease in captive bearded dragons. Many factors can cause this but it’s not limited to one or two causes. It can go unnoticed quite frequently. UVB lighting (sub par) and sub optimal temperatures are on the list.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 03-01-2022 at 10:40 AM.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  4. #3
    BPnet Veteran Hugsplox's Avatar
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    Re: Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    You're gonna have some difference of opinion here, and honestly I hesitated to even comment on this because the bearded dragon community can sometimes be a little toxic when we disagree on things. Please understand that I'm not a vet, and that it's been awhile since I kept these animals.

    I don't think it's yellow fungus. I've seen it in beardies before, and I suspect that yours is just a morph that looks yellow. As far as your dragon getting impacted from 5 dubias, depending on the size he could very well have choked when trying to eat them depending on the size. The sand in his mouth is also concerning because it's possible that while choking he just got a bunch of sand on top of the roaches. This doesn't mean that that's what happened, just a suggestion. I was always very careful with the amount and the size of feeders with these guys. They're typically kind of aggressive feeders, and will overeat if you let them.

    Lastly and this is where a disagreement might occur. I DO NOT recommend keeping dragons in enclosures that are entirely sand. I did let my dragons have dig boxes, but the rest of the enclosures were the enclosure mats that Zen Habitats sell. If you go on other forums researching dragons the "pro vs anti-sand arguments" are numerous, but my opinion is if you're just letting feeders loose on the sand for your dragon to hunt, they're going to eat the sand too and that can lead to impaction.

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  6. #4
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    I also have to be skeptical about the yellow fungus. While it DOES happen, this beardie looks to have an all over bright yellow coloration that isn't due to a disease, though I do notice a few open wounds around one side of the face? Was he previously housed with other beardies before rescue? Also, how long was he in your roomie's care? What was his diet like before and now?

    It's hard to say what happened. Especially with no other symptoms. The bulging eyes, closed nostrils, dark beard and sand does make me think he choked somehow.

    I do agree with Hugsplox to an extent, it's a huge debate. I tend to side on the 'no' sand side myself. By that I do something similar and have a slight dusting of sand over a tile or slate rock base or a small dig area. For my leopard geckos I personally used dry coco husk in a dig box because they don't like the taste if they get a mouthful.
    Without seeing a clear belly or back picture, it's hard to get an idea of how 'healthy' the beardie looked otherwise... The head/beard almost looks more streamlined like a female's to me. Are you sure it was a male? Because eggbinding could be a cause in that case as well... If he had never been housed on sand previously and switched to sand, he could have eaten quite a bit when you weren't looking as well. If he had been calcium deficient in the prior owner's care, some beardies will devour sand in an attempt to build up calcium. (regardless of calci-sand vs other sand types)

    The bulging eyes.... can actually be normal to an extent in beardies. So that is also a bit of a headscratcher. Beardies will bulge eyes when getting ready to shed, some people think that it's also like a 'yawn' in humans...so I wonder if he was unable to breathe if that was a side effect with the yawning theory. Some birds will yawn excessively when they have URIs and can't breathe well. It can also be a sign of vitamin deficiency though...and that could be something as simple as the bulb having expired. UV bulbs will still give light, but the actual UV effects lessen over time so they can be checked with a UV reader card or just change them out every 9-12 months as a precaution. If the previous owner hadn't been properly supplementing diet and changing out bulbs, that could be a reason for the bulge but I don't see it as a sudden cause of death unless it was EXTREME and you would see other signs like metabolic disease as well.

    And the last thing that I can really think of offhand is possible organ failure. If the previous owner had him on a diet of insects only and not giving enough veggies to his diet as well, there could be a buildup of protein that can cause organ failure in beardies. Something that again falls to previous ownership more than the care that you gave.

    Regardless, I'm really sorry for the stress and sadness that this is causing. Rescues can go downhill so quickly sometimes, even when we try to do everything right.
    Last edited by Armiyana; 03-01-2022 at 01:01 PM.

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  8. #5
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    A great web site for various topics on bearded dragons and reptiles in general is “beautiful dragon rescue”. I’ve been dealing with them for years. They have a wealth of information and products for beardies and reptiles in general. They have a compounding pharmacy as well. The owners name is Veronica and you can email her on the various topics of concern if it’s not addressed in the many topics covered in the table of contents / glossary.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 03-01-2022 at 01:21 PM.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  10. #6
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    A necropsy by a vet would have a good chance of determining the cause of death. Given how effective this knowledge is in avoiding future similar problems, the cost (about $150 +/- for gross necropsy, plus any pathogen tests, cytology, etc) is a very good value -- a sort of investment in one's own knowledge and care practices.

    While I don't know which pathogens are transmissible between the animals you keep, since it is possible that the beardie had a detectable pathogen that didn't contribute to its death (e.g. there were symptoms but not ones you noticed and not ones that played in role in the death), the necropsy may be valuable in that regard. Whenever a pathogen is suspected, getting it tested is good practice.

    "Rescued" (this covers a range of situations) animals should probably get an initial vet check regardless of apparent health status, since they are generally less well cared for than animals acquired in some other way (directly from a quality breeder, or from a keeper who is relinquishing a well cared for animal for other reasons).

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  12. #7
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    Re: Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    Hello, this is the owner of the Bearded Dragon mentioned in post. Goblin was kept for about 8 years with his last family and they used a combo basking/UVB bulb and wasn't eating much before I got him. I have no idea if he was sick, but all I know is I got him everything new when he came to me (uvb, che, and basking bulb), and of course a temp gun.

    They told me they replaced the bulb once a year or around then. He did not look or act sick though, so I really am thinking he ate some sand out of the blue and then choked to death. (He was in that sand for all eight years, that is why I was so confused why he would want to eat it)

    (The sand was a brand they said was made for Bearded Dragons and they gave me the extra bags, I feel incredibly stupid for not just throwing it all away now, but I didn't want to change his surroundings to dramatically at first. The plan was too change his environment with the hides and change in basking spot, and then too get rid of the sand after he got used to the hide placement since he's been in sand for pretty much his whole life.)

    (We also have no exotic vet where we live)

    (I also NEVER fed him in his tank due to the sand cause I knew that would cause health concerns, I always took him out and fed him on an open space on my floor-I always watched him eat and explore in these times and he was always supervised out of his enclosure)

    Thank you for responding!
    Last edited by BlueFiend; 03-07-2022 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Adding more information

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  14. #8
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I'm late to this thread, & just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss. Under the circumstances, you have some good guesses in the posts above, but that's really all we can do anyway here is guess. A necropsy, while expensive, would have provided more answers, but without a good herp. vet near you, you'll never be sure what caused his sudden death.

    I've only had one bearded dragon that I took in as an unwanted (about to be illegally dumped!) sickly rescue many years back, & I was able to get him healthy. He was both starving & totally blocked up from having eaten an improper diet for some time of only crickets, which were too large for him, so the numerous undigestible back legs created his problem. (If you ever have another beardie & are curious as to how I saved him, it was by giving doses of mineral oil that my vet suggested, accompanied by lukewarm water bathtub soaks to hydrate him & facilitate his massive & multiple defecations, and by keeping him going on small amounts of Gerber's baby food, which was very easily digested, plus he liked it- until he was completely cleaned out & able to resume normal foods- which he did so with great gusto.) After a few years with me, I rehomed him because snakes were really my focus, & I had a house full, with not enough time for an unplanned bearded dragon that needed so much daily attention.

    The beard darkening suggests some stress to me, so choking actually makes some sense to me, but by no means does that make it true, nor does it mean he choked on sand (or the dubia he was fed): I can remember the bearded dragon I had trying to eat small pebbles & also the buttons off my shirt- so anything could have been the cause- I hope that eases your conscience some, if he actually did choke?

    Beardies can harbor various pathogens that may stay under the radar until the stress of being rehomed makes them a significant threat, so that's another possibility, as is the off-chance that the dragon's death was related to the snake's passing. Not knowing how well you were able to separate (quarantine) this dragon from the previously sick ball python, that's unfortunately also a possibility IMO, if there was any cross-contamination.

    Again, I'm sorry for your loss; "rescuing" pets in need has rewards but also downsides. You did the best you could, it sounds like, but if you have no exotic (herp) vet available, you should probably re-think trying to rescue herps- as they often need medical care that you're not able to provide & that could make all the difference, at least for some of them. Vets aren't perfect, nor any guarantee of success, but having the option tilts the odds in your favor.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-07-2022 at 09:50 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  16. #9
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Dead Bearded Dragon Rescue, Trying to See What Happened

    Hey guys , I found these two veterinarian practices in the Oregon area. The Avian and Exotic practice is more comprehensive. For your perusal and just in case for the future.

    [IMG]Scales & Tails Exotic Pet Clinic 4.5 (79) Closed CALL WEBSITE DIRECTIONS SHARE OVERVIEW SERVICES REVIEWS PHOTOS Closed ⋅ Opens 9AM (971) 777-4900[/IMG][IMG]

    Avian and Exotic Veterinary Care 4.4 (233) 5+ years in business Closed CALL WEBSITE DIRECTIONS SHARE OVERVIEW SERVICES REVIEWS PHOTOS Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Health & safety: Appointment required · Mask required · More details (971) 361-2209 www.avianexoticvetcare.com Services: Birds, Exotic animals, Large animals, Advanced Veterinary Care, Allergy Testing, Animal Health, Avian Medicine, Avian Veterinarians, Avian Veterinary Services, Basic Grooming, Beak Trim, Behavior Consultation, Behavioral Training, Blood Transfusion, Cancer Treatment, Check-Ups, Complete Physical Examination, Comprehensive Care, Curbside Service, Day Care, Dental Care, Diagnostic Testing, Digital Radiography, Drop Off Services, Emergency Animal Hospital, Emergency Assistance, Emergency Clinics, Emergency Veterinary Medicine, End Of Life Care, Exotics Boarding, Exotics Veterinarians, Exotics Veterinary Clinics, Eye Care, Fecal Testing, Fluid Therapy, Fur Trim, Gastrointestinal Diseases, In-House Laboratory, In-House Pharmacy, Intensive Care Unit, Internal Medicine, Lab Work, Laser Surgery, Medical And Surgical, Medical Boarding, Mixed Animal Practice, Nail Trim, Pain Management, Pet Loss Support, Pet's Health, Phone Consultations, Routine Vaccinations, Senior Pet Care, Small Animal Medicine, Small Animal Practices, Small Mammals, Spay/ Neuter, Specialized Veterinary Care, Therapy Animal, Therapy Nutrition, Urgent Care, Veterinary Consult, Veterinary Dermatologist, Veterinary Training, Veterinary Visits, Wildlife Rehabilitation[/IMG]
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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