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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran 55fingers's Avatar
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    Neglected Beardie?

    I need advice, I'm really stuck on what to do about this.

    So in 2017, my family adopted a bearded dragon from a friend. We were told the beardie was I believe an 8 year old(?) female named Dora. Her care was supposed to be a family matter, but often the responsibilities fell on my mother as she took a lot of ownership of her as her own, and she never asked anyone for help with it. Keep in mind, I was about 14 or 15 years old at the time and didn't know better of the responsibility of owning a bearded dragon. That being said, looking back at photos, Dora was in good condition; bright eyes, bright colors, mostly healthy skin, alert, well-fed, a little overweight from what I can tell, but she was overall pretty healthy.

    In 2018 I started keeping snakes and was educated on reptile care for the first time (with much help of the people on here). I quickly realized that Dora was in worse condition than she should be after a year in our family. Her stools were being left for weeks, reptile carpet thrown everywhere, nails long and untrimmed, stuck shed, and her colors were a lot more grey than they had been. I didn't have a job, so I did as much research as I could, and had my mother agree to buy a couple items for her care (new uvb bulb etc). I completely redid her enclosure setup and educated my mother on some of her care.

    After that, several times I had to deep clean and redo her enclosure setup a little since I would watch her go weeks without cleaning, and she was rarely ever fed. My mother would barely ever buy live bugs and never bought the right veggies for her. Her UVB bulb was never changed, she was never soaked, her overall condition never changed and only worsened. She was only ever fed snap peas, strawberries, and dandelion leaves from our garden in small amounts, once every few days or so. The only insects she was given were freeze-dried, and were given in excess, without any calcium or other supplements of any kind. I had no money, no job, no way to provide for her. The best way I knew I could help was by giving info and doing my best to deep clean her tank when needed.

    In 2019, we went on a month-long trip and had a local reptile hobbyist store board her while we were gone. When we returned and went to pick her up, the owner of the store talked to us about the bad condition she was in, told us what he does to take care of his beardies, basically spelled everything out for us and pointed us in all the right directions. When I got in the car with my mother, I brought up the bad condition Dora was in. My mother, who does NOT take well to anything that even appears to resemble criticism, was extremely offended and defensive, claiming that "there is more than one way to take care of an animal" "she's still alive and doing alright so far" "I don't have the time or money to do everything perfectly" etc. I tried telling her that surviving does NOT equal thriving, but she wouldn't hear any of it. Finally I realized I would have to be straight-forward, so I told her that if she "doesn't have the time or money", to let me take Dora out of the living room and into my bedroom so I could properly take care of her and monitor what she was being fed. Basically I asked her to give her to me. She obviously didn't like this, we argued about it a lot, but finally she let me pretty much take ownership of her.

    I spent my first ever wage from my summer job to redo her enclosure properly; replaced old gross reptile carpet with tiles, replaced year-old compact coil uvb light with a Reptisun 10.0, replaced unregulated heat bulb with a CHE on a dimmer, got her on a diet of greens, squash, live insects with supplements, and stressed variety in her diet when I could. Her condition improved, her colors were brighter, stuck shed stopped, stools looked healthier, she was more alert and active.

    Let me note that, I am NOT a lizard person. I love lizards, they're adorable, but I have no compulsion to keep them, they are boring to me, I don't like dealing with insects, I am a snake person. There is no way my mother would have let us rehome her, and I still love all reptiles and didn't want to leave her to be neglected when I knew I could do better. During this time, instead of being thankful or happy for the lizard and the fact that her daughter spent her first wage fixing her mom's mistakes, she would continuously berate me for "taking her lizard away" and called me "lizard CPS". Let me also remind you that this lizard was literally just in the other room from her, and I told my mother she could come spend time with Dora whenever she wanted to.


    In 2020, several situations led me to moving out of my mother's house and to my father's. I had hope and wanted to give my mother a second chance, so I gave all care of the Dora back to her. I left her with all the proper equipment, supplements, and had explained to her the diet she should be on, what temperatures and humidity she should be etc.

    I have taken several visits since then and every time I'm over, I grit my teeth the entire time. She did alright with her for the first few months, but her care has completely gone down the drain since then. I have tried my best to just be passive-aggressive about it, I would ask her about her care and diet, give her pointers of what needs changed, I picked up insects at a reptile show for her and my mother said Dora loved them (which is probably because she hadn't been given insects in months) etc. But this last visit was the last straw for me, my heart breaks every time I see that bearded dragon. We had been quarantined with COVID going around and I hadn't been to my mothers in about 2 or 3 months, I didn't realize how bad her care had gotten and my tolerance has been worn down.

    Basically, she is in what looks to be a 40 gallon breeder tank, I would guess she is about 8 inches long from nose to base of tail but I'm not sure. She has the SAME Reptisun 10.0 bulb that I bought in 2019! Which I believe are supposed to be changed every 6-9 months at MOST. They broke her CHE so she has an unregulated heat bulb. She has no thermometer or hygrometer. I have never seen her water bowl full, her food bowl is always empty. There was a bag of spinach sitting unrefrigerated on the top of her tank, no insects anywhere, no supplements. This was one of the rare times her tank was clean, but when I visit it's usually always got stool and old (sometimes moldy) food in spots on the floor. The tiles aren't sealed, I had them sitting on a paper towel and I would clean underneath them. I don't think they have been lifted ONCE since I left. Dora herself is completely grey, pale and dark, her eyes are sunken, she has stuck shed and is VERY wrinkly (dehydrated). I can't tell on her weight but I know it isn't good. She is also very lethargic, but she is also possibly 13(?) years old now so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. I'm also almost 100% sure she has MBD.

    Needless to say, I'm completely furious. I did all I could to take care of the animal SHE wanted, only ever got berated for it, nursed it back to health then left her with all the resources to take proper care of it, just for her to do this. The poor thing is on its last legs already, it deserves to be taken care of for the small remainder of its life. I am honestly really surprised she is still alive as well, Dora is surprisingly resilient.

    All this being said, I'm not sure what to do now and I need advice. Is this neglect enough to intervene and possibly destroy the little bit of civility I have left with my mother? And how do I best go about it? I basically have these couple of options now; Point out the neglect and ask her nicely to give me the bearded dragon (she will likely say no way), offer to BUY the bearded dragon from her (I am really hesitant since I don't want to REWARD her for the neglect), or, possibly call Animal Control (I have reasons to believe her other animals may also be neglected, but Dora is the worst and highest-priority case).

    I really want to maintain the tiny bit of civility I have with her, also so I am not cut off from monitoring how she is treating her other animals or my siblings. Once I become aggressive I have less influence to help from the inside. And calling AC would completely throw that out the window, that would be the end of our relationship and would start a LOT of other legal drama.

    What do you guys think? I don't think I can just ignore the neglect and suffering of a living creature. What do you think is the best way to go about this? I am not very experienced with lizards, but I am right that this is neglect, correct?

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  3. #2
    BPnet Veteran Homebody's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    Buy the beardie. Everybody's happy, or, rather, happier. Your mom gets to tell herself that she sold it rather than surrendered it due to her neglect. You don't have to watch the beardie suffer. And the beardie gets the care it deserves. You're out some dough, but how much can a sick old beardie set you back? Don't worry about teaching your mom a lesson. That's not your job.

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  5. #3
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    Great story and details but first and foremost your mom is your mom no matter what. She did the best she could with what she had. No need to criticize her to the tenth degree. That said, I feel the right thing to do is take the reptile to a reputable vet. At the least, for a consultation on the best approach to handle the most pressing medical issues of the beardie. Let mom know this is a case for professional intervention going forward. The reptile vet right now should be the first priority.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  7. #4
    BPnet Veteran Erie_herps's Avatar
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    Since you value the relationship telling her that the beardie is being taken care of poorly isn't the best thing to do. I would say buy it from her, she's happy, you're happy, and the beardie's healthy. Once you have the beardie a proper enclosure and a reptile vet is the next step.

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  9. #5
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Clark View Post
    Great story and details but first and foremost your mom is your mom no matter what. She did the best she could with what she had. No need to criticize her to the tenth degree.
    I can't agree with this. If this wasn't a mom would you say the same things? Sure maybe not the 'tenth degree' but they need to be criticized not enabled.
    This animal is being neglected. Even after being given advice from both the boarding location and child, they shrug it off with the 'I know best' attitude and rude comments. That's not a doing the best with what they had.

    55fingers:
    Issues with family are always difficult. I'm sure that you already know this and I hope that things are better now that you're living with your father. I hope that in time things improve for you all, but I know that it isn't always possible.

    The sad thing is, there really isn't anything you can do outside of offering to buy Dora. Even then, your mother may use that in the future for gaslighting or guilt again. You left to live with your father and the animal is now back in her care. Dora belongs to her.

    Good luck regardless.
    At the very least, consider sneaking in some vitamin dusted bugs or good veggies when you visit. Something to be an improvement to what she's having. At 8 inches at this age, she's most likely permanently stunted from malnourishment. But she can at least have a bit of nicer QOL when you visit.
    Last edited by Armiyana; 02-03-2022 at 01:55 PM.

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  11. #6
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    [QUOTE=Armiyana;2769143]I can't agree with this. If this wasn't a mom would you say the same things? Sure maybe not the 'tenth degree' but they need to be criticized not enabled.
    This animal is being neglected. Even after being given advice from both the boarding location and child, they shrug it off with the 'I know best' attitude and rude comments. That's not a doing the best with what they had.



    55 fingers:
    And that’s fine that you don’t agree with stated comment. We can agree to disagree. Honor your mother and father above all. They are our parents and even though mom sounded as she was possessive over the beardie you have the knowledge and the right concepts of proper care. The onus was on you to see that proper care was given. Sometimes it’s our approach and language that can sway a person to see things clearly. The reptile needs veterinary intervention at this point and possibly needs veterinary hospitalization. Any other interventions should be viewed as secondary.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 02-03-2022 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Correct omissions.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

  12. #7
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homebody View Post
    Buy the beardie. Everybody's happy, or, rather, happier. Your mom gets to tell herself that she sold it rather than surrendered it due to her neglect. You don't have to watch the beardie suffer. And the beardie gets the care it deserves. You're out some dough, but how much can a sick old beardie set you back? Don't worry about teaching your mom a lesson. That's not your job.
    This, every last word of it.

    @55fingers, you're doing a great job in a rough situation. However this turns out, you're doing a wonderful thing just by being so caring and thoughtful.

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  14. #8
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    55fingers, you have my sincere sympathy. In the past, I too rescued (took in) a sick bearded dragon to nurse him back to health- they are very high maintenance pets, as you know. Coincidentally (& not at the same time- I wasn't living "at home" when I got into reptiles) I also had a mother who was "never wrong or apologetic" about ANYTHING, among her other attributes so let's just say I understand your situation.

    It's unfortunate that for whatever reasons of her own, you have a mother who cannot accept that her "child" might know more than she does. Sadly, that's unlikely to ever change, so rather than alienate your mother for the rest of your lives, please also consider that even with good care, bearded dragons have a lifespan in captivity that's typically from 10-15 years. Even if you called AC, it's unlikely they'd understand what neglect of a bearded dragon actually looks like, especially when it also means confronting "the parent".

    None of us can fix everything we'd like to (especially when it comes to the vast # of animals needing rescue) & it would be great if you could at least count on your close family members to have the same caring outlook as you do, but that ship has sailed- you might be of some influence with siblings, but we pretty much have to accept our parents for who they are, flaws included.

    If you can & still wish to try to buy this bearded dragon just to keep the peace, do so- but be realistic. It's painful that it's an animal you know- especially one that you've already helped in the past- so to see that once again it's being neglected (& yes, underfed) is really hard. But also realize that she may not live much longer, & it may be too late to change that.

    She cannot say it but I can: thank you for all you've done to try to help her as much as you could. Some day (and it might be many years from now) you might find that your mother was also doing "the best she can"- even though it doesn't measure up in terms of animal care standards. Do your best to forgive her & move on for your sake- so you can put your amazing energy & heart where it can do the most good, because holding on to feelings of anger/etc. will actually hurt you, not her.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 02-04-2022 at 12:12 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  16. #9
    BPnet Veteran 55fingers's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    Thank you so much for all the advice everyone. This Sunday I am going to be visiting to drop off my siblings at my mother's. While I am there I am going to offer to buy her off of her. I will also take pictures to see if anyone can gauge the beardie's health status before possible vet intervention.


    [QUOTE=Albert Clark;2769144]
    Quote Originally Posted by Armiyana View Post
    I can't agree with this. If this wasn't a mom would you say the same things? Sure maybe not the 'tenth degree' but they need to be criticized not enabled.
    This animal is being neglected. Even after being given advice from both the boarding location and child, they shrug it off with the 'I know best' attitude and rude comments. That's not a doing the best with what they had.



    55 fingers:
    And that’s fine that you don’t agree with stated comment. We can agree to disagree. Honor your mother and father above all. They are our parents and even though mom sounded as she was possessive over the beardie you have the knowledge and the right concepts of proper care. The onus was on you to see that proper care was given. Sometimes it’s our approach and language that can sway a person to see things clearly. The reptile needs veterinary intervention at this point and possibly needs veterinary hospitalization. Any other interventions should be viewed as secondary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    55fingers, you have my sincere sympathy. In the past, I too rescued (took in) a sick bearded dragon to nurse him back to health- they are very high maintenance pets, as you know. Coincidentally (& not at the same time- I wasn't living "at home" when I got into reptiles) I also had a mother who was "never wrong or apologetic" about ANYTHING, among her other attributes so let's just say I understand your situation.

    It's unfortunate that for whatever reasons of her own, you have a mother who cannot accept that her "child" might know more than she does. Sadly, that's unlikely to ever change, so rather than alienate your mother for the rest of your lives, please also consider that even with good care, bearded dragons have a lifespan in captivity that's typically from 10-15 years. Even if you called AC, it's unlikely they'd understand what neglect of a bearded dragon actually looks like, especially when it also means confronting "the parent".

    None of us can fix everything we'd like to (especially when it comes to the vast # of animals needing rescue) & it would be great if you could at least count on your close family members to have the same caring outlook as you do, but that ship has sailed- you might be of some influence with siblings, but we pretty much have to accept our parents for who they are, flaws included.

    If you can & still wish to try to buy this bearded dragon just to keep the peace, do so- but be realistic. It's painful that it's an animal you know- especially one that you've already helped in the past- so to see that once again it's being neglected (& yes, underfed) is really hard. But also realize that she may not live much longer, & it may be too late to change that.

    She cannot say it but I can: thank you for all you've done to try to help her as much as you could. Some day (and it might be many years from now) you might find that your mother was also doing "the best she can"- even though it doesn't measure up in terms of animal care standards. Do your best to forgive her & move on for your sake- so you can put your amazing energy & heart where it can do the most good, because holding on to feelings of anger/etc. will actually hurt you, not her.

    As far as this goes, thank you both for the advice and words. My anger towards my mother runs deeper than just the bearded dragon, there are several reasons that my relationship with her is not very strong. I held on to the hope that she would change for years, I tried my best to honor her for being my mother, but at this point she has lost all my respect. I am acting out of love by trying to keep her at an arm's distance, to hold back my frustration at her. She has neglected and unintentionally killed tons of animals over the years. She has also neglected me and my siblings our whole lives and, not to get too personal, has made a very irresponsible and dangerous string of decisions within the past 3 years or so which makes me fear for every living thing in her household. I can never stop loving her, but I have no more respect for her.

    All her animals are unvaccinated, never brushed or washed, mostly fed leftovers of people food, never taken to a vet, untrained, are not given anywhere to urinate and defecate, some are unfixed and continuously have litters upon litters which then usually die themselves, her animals are always either overweight from unhealthy diet or skin and bones from being starved.

    That same last visit, I found that our childhood dog had gone from majorly overweight to skin and bones within a month, wasn't eating. He was drinking tons and urinating everywhere so my mother locked him (a very short-haired smaller dog) outside by himself in the middle of winter, all day every day (except at night), so he wouldn't urinate on the floor, and she said "it's his fault for drinking and peeing so much". He's on the brink of death and she was angry at him. She said she didn't have the money to take him to the vet, in which case she shouldn't have so many animals. I told her to surrender him (our local shelter does an assessment, if they can be treated they are and then put up for adoption, if not they are put down), she said she didn't want to. She only agreed to take him to the vet when we threatened to pick him up and surrender him ourselves.

    She has always had this attitude about all her animals and all her children, such as being offended when my father would point out to her my siblings needing medical attention. She has always been like this and I don't expect her to change. This is why I may call Animal Control or some type authority to investigate, because I am so done with her taking on responsibilities she knows she can't handle, and people and animals suffering because of it.

    I hope that makes a little bit more sense. There is no unwarranted hate towards her. I have bit my tongue and tip-toed for so long but I don't want to feel like an accomplice anymore.

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  18. #10
    BPnet Veteran Homebody's Avatar
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    Re: Neglected Beardie?

    I believe peoples' attitudes toward animals are changing for the better, but unfortunately, people with your mother's attitude are still too common. My grandmother once asked my father to do her a favor. Her cat had a litter of kittens and she didn't want them. Could he come over and drown them? To her generation, an animal you didn't want was a pest, no different than a mouse or a bug. My father refused. To his generation, it was different, and that's progress. I hope that progress continues in me and my children.

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