Guess the Normal (or not)

[Mehelya]

I haven't posted here in a very long time it seems, so greetings from across the pond firstly.

Now, for the reason for the post... I had a chance last year (2021) to piggy-bag on an import a dear friend was doing, and seeing that I always wanted to do an import, I jumped at the opportunity. Sadly some of the snake species I would have liked to get were either a bit pricey (our currency to dollar exchange rates can be killer sometimes), or our nature conservation authorities denied the species entry altogether. Thankfully, it was hatching season in west africa, as luck would actually have it, so I told the exporter to send me a few lucky packet ball pythons (I think my exact words to the exporter were "Send me the butt-ugliest babies that no one else wants", and it seemed to have worked), as long as they were ranched and not wc. This was a once off deal, because my ideals in my hobby have slowly been changing from no issues with wc, to I'd rather not do it myself anymore (I am not bashing anyone who does, just my personal opinions have changed over the last few years).

Well, I was pleasantly surprised with what he did send me, but I haven't got a clue if anything would be worth tinkering with in the long run. I know that all the really good stuff has long been snatched up before I got to see anything, but I think a few potential projects may have landed in my lap, but my knowledge of subtle morphs (and almost any morph, tbph) is sorely lacking these days.

I would appreciate any input on the imports (8 are on FT, and 2 have been fussying between live and ft, but you'll see that difference in their sizes), I have a few I think are potentials, but some professional/seasoned eyes would be appreciated. Click to enlarge (They're on the gallery, correctly I hope), as I didn't want to fill the page on the first go with giant pics, seeing as I've never used the gallery before this.

Import 1



Import 2



Import 3



Import 4



Import 5



Import 6



Import 7



Import 8



Import 9



Import 10



I am personally partial to 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. But, I'm not here for my opinion, but yours. So, thanks in advance for looking and commenting! All pics were taken in direct sunlight, with no flash or editing, other than cropping and making the jpegs smaller.

[Albert Clark]

Congrats, they all look great! That’s a nice way you set them up for the photo arrangement as well. #6 stands out to me mostly because of the clean white belly. I don’t know for sure if those are piebald markers by the vent due to only being able to clearly see one side. The irregular dorsolateral patterning makes me think piebald as well. Busy patterning.

#5 seems to have a reduced pattern with a light coloration. And a busy belly pattern.

[Armiyana]

Babies are always so cute ♥

8 has some really neat flaming coming up from the belly. That would be my pick if I was gonna dinker with any.

5 and 10 seem to have some really nice color coming in compared to the others too though.

[nikkubus]

9 and 10 appear to have something in YB complex but with WC/CH it's always a guess, you would have to do some test breeding to know. 6 and 7 look like there might be some kind of subtle darkening gene in there, but same thing. Many of the others have really reduced side pattern, which could mean something, but may just be natural variation of normals.

I know I've said this before on another post, but I'll say it again. Breeding WC/CH is quite an undertaking and not something I would recommend for a beginner. It takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of space to prove out a new gene or test if a gene is the same as or allelic with another similar looking one. You are going to get a lot of normals that are going to be tough to sell, and whatever do prove out are still going to be hard to sell until you have worked with the new gene enough to be able to positively ID it, and find combos that it looks really good in.

These guys are young and you have some time, if you are hellbent on working with them, start studying as much as possible about IDing morphs and how different morphs react with others. Don't just look on the internet, go to shows and petstores and see how they look in person, because it can be drastically different. If you know a local breeder ask to help them out cage cleaning or something in exchange for teaching you some stuff. The more you can learn before you start breeding, the less heartbreak, frustration, and money down the drain.

[Mehelya]

Thanks Albert Clark, call it my OCD coming I to play with posting pics. The markings are on both sides of #6's tail. Unfortunatwly being ranched babies, I'll never know what the parents look like. Heck, they might already be in collections in Europe or in the States. Lol. Sorry, as soon as they feel sun, they are almost impossible to keep still for longer than a few split seconds at a time. #5 (and #8) are probably my personal favorites above all the others, because of their coloring, patterns and flaming.


Armiyana, thanks. Anything as a baby tends to be cute. Balls even more so. Lol. Yup, #5 definitely ain't going anywhere ever, and #10 has developed some nice coloration, but only recently, so, maybe a late bloomer.

Thanks for the sound advice Nikkubus. I am no stranger to breeding snakes over lengthy periods to prove things out, and all the heartache associated with it. I've been working on a new house snake gene, and so far it's taken 6 years, just to get visuals out of the recessive parents. Bad clutches, no clutches, babies refusing to eat, I've been there a few times. I've been doing colubrids for around 27 years, and balls now for about 7 (just a few basic co-dom morphs) along with a random mix of elapids and vipers over the years. #s 6 and 7 have been suggested as granite types by a few friends I do chat to, but we all know about genetic and non genetic granites ha ha ha.

My biggest issue is in our country the expos and shows are far and few between, the majority of breeders that are here tend to be rather secretive about information for some strange reason, and I live in the middle of nowhere with no other breeders (that I know of) for at least 400km from my house... so, hands on experience with ball morphs is not really on the table for me, which sucks, because pictures on the net can vary greatly based on how they were taken/edited.

They're just shy of a year old now, so i still have a few years to go, and I'm sure they will still change some more before I get to that point, and I'll make darned sure that I carefully select what I do with what, hence this post, even though I do have a chap who buys up all my excess breeding for resale, so extra babies is usually not an issue. I always make sure I have a market for any specimens I don't want well before I even attempt any breeding.

Thanks so much for the replies so far everyone. Much appreciated.

[Albert Clark]

Gotcha! Happy dinking with these guys and gals. I know that you will find something in this project sooner than later. Stay focused, don’t give up.