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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Help! Sudden behavior switch

    Hi all,

    I am in need of some help or guidance.
    My adult Rosy boa Atticus (5-6yrs) has always been one of the most docile, laid-back, basically sweet snakes I'd ever met. (I haven't owned him his whole life but over a year) Even when I got him from a pet shop with crappy care and he came home dehydrated and full of mites, he was sweet during treatment. Well, he's not anymore, and I can't figure out why.

    I am at a loss right now. I love this snake and do not want to re-home him, but I feel if I can't figure out what happened, I may have to. I don't want to keep a snake that I can't provide enrichment to, or that I can't handle. I don't want him to live his life in his enclosure doing nothing.

    This year he went off food for a while, which I know can be normal, but I'm a worrier and took him to the vet after 3-4 months of his food strike.
    The vet didn't have anything super conclusive, he had no symptoms of an RI, but one of his lungs looked slightly less clear in an x-ray than the other.
    So she gave me antibiotics to give him. I did, and he began eating again a couple weeks after he finished them.

    Then it was literally like a switch flipped in him. He started being nippy, trying to bite, super defensive. I thought maybe he needed more handing and took him out for 15min 2x a day (between digesting meals of course.)
    It didn't help or make any difference. I got some reptaid to give him as it helped my sister's rescued water dragon a lot with his health.

    Atticus seemed to calm down a bit with a week of that, put some weight on in a good way. I handled him very briefly yesterday with gloves on and he seemed fine. Although weirdly kept wanting to slither toward my face.
    Tonight, I was talking to him while he was in his enclosure, which he used to seem to enjoy. He wasn't acting tense or getting into a striking position, but out of nowhere launched himself at my face through the glass.

    I'm very depressed at his sudden behavior switch. He was seriously my snake ambassador for people who are scared or unfamiliar with them.
    I cannot figure out why this happened.
    Was it the antibiotics? Did they mess up his gut biome too much? He seems to have a weird tic after them too.

    Any insights would be appreciated, but please be kind. I can't handle much in the way of negative or rude comments. I'm trying my best. I have multiple health issues and autoimmune conditions, some of which came out of nowhere this year and I had to quit my well-paying job for something that is barely income, and move in with family members, so going to the vet again if that is necessary would be something I have to save for. Not that the exotic vet available instilled much confidence either.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, I appreciate any who made it this far and may have some insight. I just want to help my boy.

  2. #2
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    He sounds like either he's in pain or some sort of digestive discomfort. Bear in mind that antibiotics kill all the good bacteria indiscriminately along with the bad, & with poor digestion, maybe his stomach feels bad. Were the antibiotics given injectable type? Oral antibiotics don't do much in snakes, because they're cold blooded & don't absorb them properly from the gut, so most likely they just end up making things worse- especially how the snake "feels". Keep in mind that animals cannot always distinguish between "hunger pangs" & an upset stomach due to causes other than hunger.

    After giving a snake antibiotics, may I suggest you add reptile probiotics to his food to help his gut bacteria return to normal- so he can better digest his food. Either "Bene-Bac" or "Nutribac".

    When you took him to the vet, I hope you took a fresh stool sample for the vet to check? If not, do so- intestinal worms could be sharing his food- that could explain all his symptoms too, actually. Especially if the pet shop he came from fed him live mice (that's where they catch "worms" from- live prey).

    I've never used Reptaid- but I notice they don't show a snake on the label. Anyway, I doubt that it did much either for or against him.

    Rosy boas (especially males more than females) do often go off food in fall/winter- sometimes for months, especially if they felt the cool enough in their home to be aware of the seasonal change. (I've raised rosy boas for many years, though I no longer breed them- & I still have just 1 rosy boa among my pet snakes.) What are the temperatures in his home- tell me more about his living arrangements.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    He mostly sounds hungry to me- what are you feeding him? how much, how often? PLEASE try giving him probiotics with his meals.

    Years ago, I used to offer advice & help to a nearby nature museum that had rosy boas & other local snakes. The behavior you're seeing with yours reminds me of one of theirs- also used for public "meet & greets". You had to pay close attention because sometimes the snake would sort of push his nose into the hand that was holding him, here & there, before deciding "gee, maybe I CAN eat this?" & biting! Silly snake! Hey, some are smarter than others- what can I say? And some make better goodwill ambassadors than others, but since yours was "well-behaved" prior to all this, I think there's a good chance that he'll regain that once he is (A) fed more, with probiotics added, and (B) handled a little more regularly.

    *****When snakes bite, there's a reason. I think that most likely he is confusing stomach irritation (from the meds given) with hunger pangs. *****
    (What antibiotic was he given? injectable, or? Keep in mind, while they may be necessary at times, they may not be without harm too.)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Never take it "personal" when a snake tries to bite you thru the glass- they're going after motion, & usually hoping it's edible. They need your scent & touch to identify you- most snakes aren't that visually oriented. Also, snakes cannot really hear- so your talking makes you feel good, but all your snake gets -at the most- is some bass note vibrations on the glass, which further peaks his interest in eating if he's thinking about food & seeing a little motion out there...

    I'd say there's a good chance you can avoid another expensive vet visit if you try the probiotics as I suggested, OR at the most, you can drop off a stool sample to be checked (since the vet already SAW this snake). Okay? All the best- let us know if this helps?

    I hope the vet you saw has plenty of snake experience? If not, this may help for future reference: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 12-25-2021 at 12:10 PM.
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  4. #3
    BPnet Royalty KMG's Avatar
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    Did this happen after you moved in with family? Could be a stresser he has now that he didn't before.
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  5. #4
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    Re: Help! Sudden behavior switch

    Thanks Bogertophis,

    The vet gave him oral antibiotics, and also did not even mention a stool sample. The first thought was x-rays, which I had done and the only suggestion after that was a
    $500 blood test. You'd think she would have gone to possible parasites next, but I guess they care more about $. It's not a clinic I particularly like, but the only one with exotic vets on staff within 2 hours of me. There are 2 exotics at the clinic, and the one I saw was not my preferred choice, but the other wasn't available at the time.

    I already have some bene-bac on hand, I will start giving him that. (gave him some last night actually.) Do you know how long it's good to give that for? A few months?
    It's definitely not hunger, he gets a small adult mouse or rat pup every 10-14 days, depending on if he acts hungry sooner or not. While I was giving him the reptaid (It is for snakes also, they have information on dosing them on their website, and the XL version for reptiles over 250g has much more info/reviews for snakes) he was getting fed slightly smaller meals every 3 days.

    I'm aware it's normal for them to go off food in the fall, he stopped eating in summer and didn't eat again until September. For his warm side I use a deep heat projector on a thermostat and is kept around 87 degrees, cool side is around 74. With a nice gradient around the warm side provided by the DHP. He has hides on both ends and in the middle, aspen chips for burrowing and UV light.

    He hasn't had a single issue before now and doesn't act unhappy or tank surf.
    He really has been the perfect snake up until he got the antibiotics, which was what I was suspecting for the sudden behavior change, but I had no idea the oral ones were so useless/bad for them. He was also handled very regularly until this behavior started. I avoid handling until after they poop their last meal, and other than that they get out almost every night for handling and enrichment.

    I do know they can't see or hear that well too, he was smelling me and tongue flicking a lot through the mesh before he launched at me. Kinda half between the screen and the glass. But everything you're saying about his stomach being upset makes a lot of sense, and that he could confuse that with hunger.
    He got a gram of benebac last night and I'll happily continue adding that to his meals, if it doesn't help, I will see if I can simply drop off a stool sample to the vets. He did get live feeders at the pet store I got him from.

    Thanks for the insights. I'm hopeful the probiotics will help him feel better.
    Last edited by HouseofBoop; 12-29-2021 at 02:40 PM.

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  7. #5
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    I would keep adding some Bene-Bac for a while- hopefully you'll see improvement, & it might take a few months to fully build back his digestion, considering he did have oral antibiotics.

    My gut feeling (pardon the pun) is that his messed-up digestion truly feels to him like hunger pangs. And you need a better snake-vet- one that knows not to give oral antibiotics to a snake.

    Doing an X-ray was reasonable- to see if a broken bone or other internal issue might show up, but I don't really blame you for hesitating about the $500 blood test.

    If he doesn't improve, that's another matter, but personally, I'd insist on a stool check for parasites in his gut long before I'd go with that bloodwork. The fact that he's eating will also help replenish his gut bacteria naturally, so I'd just see how it goes for a while. It might be a combination of factors too- knowing he did eat some live feeders in the past, just keep in mind that they're not always "clean" (without parasites). The stool needs to be freshly examined, btw.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  9. #6
    BPnet Senior Member JodanOrNoDan's Avatar
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    In all my years I have met exactly one good reptile vet. In my opinion, if you are going to keep reptiles you have to change your way of thinking. Thier bodies and brains do not react or the same way a mammal's does. I spent a lot of time learning reptile biology. I am by no means an expert but I know more about the animals I keep than most vets I have encountered. The only time I will use a vet now adays is if I have to have certain test run. I am lucky though. I have access to a lot of medical equipment.

    Love them or hate them Nerd has quite a few good vids on reptile care, behavior, and treatment. Watch, read books and learn. That is 90% of the fun for me.
    Honest, I only need one more ...

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  11. #7
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    Re: Help! Sudden behavior switch

    Did this behavior switch happen around the time your vet gave Atticus the all-clear? If so, there's a chance that he's actually feeling well enough now to express his true personality. Reptiles are very stoic creatures. Sometimes, when they're not feeling well, they actually act more docile than they would be otherwise. While rosy boas are ultimately sweet snakes, a few of my friends who keep them report that they can be very food-happy little chompers, almost like they're mini womas!

    It may well be that Atticus has recovered well enough under your care to get his appetite back. That could explain why he's become so nippy lately -- he may actually be looking for food. Alternatively, he may also just want a little more time to himself without handling, and asking you for it the only way he knows how (ie. nipping and being defensive).

    Try giving him a little more space and start some tap training -- you should be able to find a thread or two on the later if you use the forum's search function. If he's just foody, the tap training should help with his nippiness. Stay in touch with your vet, and give them a call if you notice any signs or illness or strong, unusual tics. Good luck!
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