African Soft Fur calorie content?

[aminevoo]

So my 1 year old male ball python went on a 2-month hunger strike. He was slightly skinny looking before he started refusing food, and he lost even more weight during his strike (only about 50 grams so not terrible but he definitely needed to be gaining weight). I kept trying regular rats ranging from 30-60 grams but he refused each one, and I would give him a week between each attempt. I even tried ordering rats from a different company but those still didn’t work, so I ended up getting African Soft Furs to try and break his hunger strike.
It worked a little too well because now he’ll only accept ASFs 😩 I knew this was a risk before I ordered them, but I just wanted him to start eating and gaining weight again. The ASFs I ordered are tiny (20-30 grams each which is less than 10-15% of his body weight, but that’s all there was in stock anywhere online), and he’ll only accept 1 at a time. I’ve tried feeding him 2 ASFs at once but he always refuses the second one, even though he’s taken 2 rats at once before.
So that brings me to my main question: does anyone know the calorie content of an African Soft Fur? I’ve looked online but can’t find anything anywhere. It’s not super important for me to know I guess, I just wanted to compare the nutritional content of an ASF to a similar-sized rat since I’m not sure he’ll be accepting regular rats anytime soon.

[Bogertophis]

I wouldn't worry about it- ball pythons are from Africa, & their natural diet is ASFs to the best of my knowledge. When I've read comparisons of other rodent prey animals (mice & rats) they're all quite similar anyway- I should think the variations for ASFs would be minimal- since most BPs are raised on domestic mice & rats these days.

BPs also tend to like (prefer) hamsters (in my experience) but I'm not sure about their calorie content either. I've always raised my own rodents, & I'd be willing to bet there are more differences in nutrition between any of my home-grown rodents (which are given supplemental things like kale, nuts & seeds) & those commercially-raised on cheaper feed (especially knowing that many are raised on dog-food, btw- which is not balanced for rodents at all).

I would go by size though- if your BP will only eat "one item", you'll need to size up, OR feed a little sooner, for him to get the same nutrition. Since you're stuck for the moment with smaller-than-usual size, I'd just feed a little more often, knowing he'll be hungry sooner. Just watch for the "signs" that he's looking for food.

[Bleh]

Calorie contents of rats to feed snakes is a new level of keen!!

A yearling is still growing and you won't find a single forum member who's kept a BP for a few years who hasn't experienced a hunger strike.

Multis (ASF's) are the BP's native prey, and I've used them plenty to break a prolonged fasting period. Some people opt to only feed multis, but because the multis don't grow as large as 'standard' rats, I choose not to unless necessary!

If he's taking food for you again, try and introduce standard rats again if that's your preference. If he wastes it one week, offer the next week and if he wastes again, I'd be tempted to wait a fortnight before offering again... as several members here will tell you, hunger always wins (although it's not nice when they go off food).

Other things for you to maybe consider (as you've mentioned it) is why is he skinny? Maybe he's actually healthy and just looks skinny to you, or maybe he's healthy and hasn't been moved up in meal size at the appropriate time?!

He lost 50 grams! What was he to begin with? Did he have a sizeable bowel movement in that time? If he didn't have a huge poo and lost 50 grams in two months and also weights circa. 500 grams, it may be worth some additional investigation as that's a substantial loss for a young, growing snake!

Anyway, hope this helps a little and don't worry about the calorie count of the rats, I suspect your snake's wasteline is the least of their concerns

[aminevoo]

Calorie contents of rats to feed snakes is a new level of keen!!

A yearling is still growing and you won't find a single forum member who's kept a BP for a few years who hasn't experienced a hunger strike.

Multis (ASF's) are the BP's native prey, and I've used them plenty to break a prolonged fasting period. Some people opt to only feed multis, but because the multis don't grow as large as 'standard' rats, I choose not to unless necessary!

If he's taking food for you again, try and introduce standard rats again if that's your preference. If he wastes it one week, offer the next week and if he wastes again, I'd be tempted to wait a fortnight before offering again... as several members here will tell you, hunger always wins (although it's not nice when they go off food).

Other things for you to maybe consider (as you've mentioned it) is why is he skinny? Maybe he's actually healthy and just looks skinny to you, or maybe he's healthy and hasn't been moved up in meal size at the appropriate time?!

He lost 50 grams! What was he to begin with? Did he have a sizeable bowel movement in that time? If he didn't have a huge poo and lost 50 grams in two months and also weights circa. 500 grams, it may be worth some additional investigation as that's a substantial loss for a young, growing snake!

Anyway, hope this helps a little and don't worry about the calorie count of the rats, I suspect your snake's wasteline is the least of their concerns

Ive compared his body size to the “ideal body size” chart for ball pythons that can be found online, and his shape is a bit more triangular than the ideal, which makes me believe he’s slightly underweight. His spine doesn’t protrude super visibly but you can still see the outline of it. He was skinny-looking straight from his breeder who I believe was underfeeding him, because he was being fed 30g mice at 8 months old (I bought him when he was 8 months, and the breeder said the last thing he ate was a 30g mouse). I’ve been trying to feed him bigger sized prey to get him to pack on some healthy weight ever since getting him, but he refuses anything that’s heavier than 45 grams, and usually only accepts pup-sized rats. I ordered a whole bag of “small” rats weighing between 50-80 grams which is perfect for his 10-15% range (he weighed 599g before his strike), but he’s refused every single one. I’ve even tested it out by offering a 30g pup rat the day after he’d refuse a 50g small rat, and he would accept the pup rat no problem.
Besides his weight he looks and acts perfectly normal. Husbandry is where it needs to be and he doesn’t show signs of stress or sickness at all. And I’m sure his weight isn’t actually a big deal because most of the other ball pythons I compare him to look chunkier than they should be in the first place. I’ll try to attach recent photos of him.

[Bogertophis]

Many breeders & vendors of snakes (especially pet stores- almost always!) do underfeed snakes so they don't grow too fast & out-grow their temporary quarters- so they stay "small, cute & appealing" & because they're being "cheap" (or rather, "profit-minded") about their food.

Snakes don't put on weight quickly- please don't try to push it. First because a snake that's slightly underweight is generally healthier than one that's slightly overweight- snakes don't lose weight easily & can get "fatty liver disease". The other thing to keep in mind is that young snakes grow imperceptibly in length, so a little weight gain goes unnoticed- but they actually ARE growing- you just can't see it easily. Just be patient.

[aminevoo]

[aminevoo]

Many breeders & vendors of snakes (especially pet stores- almost always!) do underfeed snakes so they don't grow too fast & out-grow their temporary quarters- so they stay "small, cute & appealing" & because they're being "cheap" (or rather, "profit-minded") about their food.

Snakes don't put on weight quickly- please don't try to push it. First because a snake that's slightly underweight is generally healthier than one that's slightly overweight- snakes don't lose weight easily & can get "fatty liver disease". The other thing to keep in mind is that young snakes grow imperceptibly in length, so a little weight gain goes unnoticed- but they actually ARE growing- you just can't see it easily. Just be patient.

That makes sense that they’d be growing a lot more in length as juveniles, I didn’t even think about that haha. He seems pretty long already (for his age) at about 2.5 feet, so maybe he’ll end up being on the longer side as an adult. I’m not over-feeding/power-feeding him by any means because he only accepts smaller prey like I previously mentioned and I only feed once a week minimum.
I was under the impression though that their juvenile stage is the most crucial time for growth, meaning you have to make sure they get the nutrition they need to properly grow (basically that a food strike would be more serious for a juvenile than it would be for an adult). That’s pretty much the only reason I’ve been analyzing and paying so much attention to his body condition and weight.

[Bleh]

Looks OK to me.

You may notice sudden growth spurts as you size the feeds, but these also slow down as he will grow bigger and his feed size stays the same until sized up again (if that makes sense?).

[Bogertophis]

Looks fine to me also, & males don't usually eat as much as the females, or grow as much- it's the girls that do the reproduction, after all.

[aminevoo]

Looks fine to me also, & males don't usually eat as much as the females, or grow as much- it's the girls that do the reproduction, after all.

Ok sounds good! I'll stop overthinking and comparing him to all the chunky BPs that I see online. I know that females are the ones that are "allowed" to grow quite thick and that males are supposed to be more lean, so I'll just keep doing what I've been doing and won't worry about it Thanks for the help!