Stop pushing!!

[Team Slytherin]

Good evening, friends! I am here to ask some questions of those of you who have successfully dissuaded your animals from excessive pushing. I imagine this will particularly pertain to retic keepers, but all advice is welcome!

I have a 5-6 year old Tanimbar Scrub Python who has really been banging up his face this year. After consulting some fellow scrub keepers, we decided this was partly hormonal - as it seems he and my Dumeril’s Boa both went through puberty this year and having a female housed above him during breeding season made him a little nuts.

Everyone was interested to see if the behavior would quiet after breeding season passed and, to some degree, it did. He had also hit a big growth spurt over the last year, so the consensus was that a larger enclosure was in order. I recently set him up in a 6x2.5x4 bioactive enclosure and for the first month, everything went great!

But last week, it started again. He is pushing obsessively and this neurotic behavior just has me at my wit’s end. He is seriously damaging his face and it has got to stop! I am in the process of re-adjusting his lighting and generally combing over his husbandry….as I think he wouldn’t be trying desperately to escape if his husbandry was on point. But he has much more space now, plenty of branches and hides…his humidity is around 70-80%, with a temperature gradient of 73-93. He is almost always basking during the day, rarely ever hides, and is very active at night. Aside from re-configuring his lighting, I also just bought a curtain for him (that I will install tomorrow)
so that he can have privacy and less stimulation from living room antics.

Other than that, I’m out of ideas. Have any of you keepers of obsessive pushers been able to curb this behavior? I’ll add some photos of his enclosure for reference.




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[Neko_snake]

Good evening, friends! I am here to ask some questions of those of you who have successfully dissuaded your animals from excessive pushing. I imagine this will particularly pertain to retic keepers, but all advice is welcome!

I have a 5-6 year old Tanimbar Scrub Python who has really been banging up his face this year. After consulting some fellow scrub keepers, we decided this was partly hormonal - as it seems he and my Dumeril’s Boa both went through puberty this year and having a female housed above him during breeding season made him a little nuts.

Everyone was interested to see if the behavior would quiet after breeding season passed and, to some degree, it did. He had also hit a big growth spurt over the last year, so the consensus was that a larger enclosure was in order. I recently set him up in a 6x2.5x4 bioactive enclosure and for the first month, everything went great!

But last week, it started again. He is pushing obsessively and this neurotic behavior just has me at my wit’s end. He is seriously damaging his face and it has got to stop! I am in the process of re-adjusting his lighting and generally combing over his husbandry….as I think he wouldn’t be trying desperately to escape if his husbandry was on point. But he has much more space now, plenty of branches and hides…his humidity is around 70-80%, with a temperature gradient of 73-93. He is almost always basking during the day, rarely ever hides, and is very active at night. Aside from re-configuring his lighting, I also just bought a curtain for him (that I will install tomorrow)
so that he can have privacy and less stimulation from living room antics.

Other than that, I’m out of ideas. Have any of you keepers of obsessive pushers been able to curb this behavior? I’ll add some photos of his enclosure for reference.




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I want to preference that I'm newer to snakes so I might not have the best advice and someone here might have better. However I have worked with animals that have zoonotic disorders which to me this sounds similar. Now hear me out first. When I worked at a zoo, we had bobcats that were coming into puberty. They would often pace and pace because they were frustrated. With cats, they hunt by smell and sight, so a lot of times if we put toys with new smells on the toys, the cats would stop pacing for a while. Or if we were short on time if we just rearranged their furniture they typically would stop and pay attention to that.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is have you given him things to keep him distracted? Like when you put him in a new enclosure and he stopped for a while. He was probably searching the enclosure and wanting to know more about it so that kept him busy. So maybe rearranging his branches every so often would help. Even maybe having a snake jungle gym that's outside the enclosure that you can put him on for like an hour. That's for you to hopefully tire him out before you put him back in his enclosure. Do this right before the time he usually starts banging.

Now like I said I'm newer to snakes and snake behavior but I'm just trying to think of something that possibly could help.

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[The-ReptiRanch]

Good evening, friends! I am here to ask some questions of those of you who have successfully dissuaded your animals from excessive pushing. I imagine this will particularly pertain to retic keepers, but all advice is welcome!

I have a 5-6 year old Tanimbar Scrub Python who has really been banging up his face this year. After consulting some fellow scrub keepers, we decided this was partly hormonal - as it seems he and my Dumeril’s Boa both went through puberty this year and having a female housed above him during breeding season made him a little nuts.

Everyone was interested to see if the behavior would quiet after breeding season passed and, to some degree, it did. He had also hit a big growth spurt over the last year, so the consensus was that a larger enclosure was in order. I recently set him up in a 6x2.5x4 bioactive enclosure and for the first month, everything went great!

But last week, it started again. He is pushing obsessively and this neurotic behavior just has me at my wit’s end. He is seriously damaging his face and it has got to stop! I am in the process of re-adjusting his lighting and generally combing over his husbandry….as I think he wouldn’t be trying desperately to escape if his husbandry was on point. But he has much more space now, plenty of branches and hides…his humidity is around 70-80%, with a temperature gradient of 73-93. He is almost always basking during the day, rarely ever hides, and is very active at night. Aside from re-configuring his lighting, I also just bought a curtain for him (that I will install tomorrow)
so that he can have privacy and less stimulation from living room antics.

Other than that, I’m out of ideas. Have any of you keepers of obsessive pushers been able to curb this behavior? I’ll add some photos of his enclosure for reference.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I definitely think the curtain should fix it. Anytime I have snakes push I just cover the cage or tub or whatever they are in and it stops. They dont quite understand the concept of transparent objects and they keep pushing around feeling for a way to get around it or through it. But another thing you can do is feed more often depending on your current feeding schedule. Snakes typically rest to digest food and will push to try and find food

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[Bogertophis]

I've definitely seen the same sort of thing with a bull snake I used to have. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer other than to say I think that perhaps some animals don't belong in cages- at least not of a size that fits in a house. I think the curtain idea helps for some, but for snakes like bull snakes, they're very active hunters, so for us to expect them to sit still all day long, day after day, isn't very realistic, is it? Hormones & the search for a mate may also be part of the problem too.

So the larger the snake is (along with the characteristics of their species) it's more likely to be a problem & should probably figure in to what we choose to keep as "pets". I don't think "racer" type snakes (such as coachwhips) belong in cages either- it's not fair to them. I have no experience with scrub pythons, btw- just with many other kinds of snakes. Even though a snake is captive-bred & "all their needs are being met", not all are going to be "happy campers" because their instincts are very influential, & just because you "can" buy one doesn't mean you "should", nor is it any guarantee it's going to be a great captive pet.

Certainly snakes that are hungry will be more restless, but feeding the snake every time it's pushing will most often end up with a very overweight & unhealthy snake. It's horrible to watch a beautiful snake destroying it's face by pushing- I wish there was a simple solution.

[Team Slytherin]

I definitely think the curtain should fix it. Anytime I have snakes push I just cover the cage or tub or whatever they are in and it stops. They dont quite understand the concept of transparent objects and they keep pushing around feeling for a way to get around it or through it. But another thing you can do is feed more often depending on your current feeding schedule. Snakes typically rest to digest food and will push to try and find food

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This is a perfect example of how sneaky and spoiled this guy is…the other day, I used a blanket to cover all but a 6inch sliver of his cage (that’s as far as it would fit). He came right over to the open side, looked at me, and continued on😑

When it gets really bad, I usually do as you mentioned and just feed him so he quiets a bit. I’m always nervous about this approach because I know scrub keepers can be judgy about fat scrubs🤣 But maybe he’s just hungry?! I hear very long time scrub keepers say they feed only 6-7 times a year (though most do much more than that). Apophis is currently on a schedule of 3-5 weeks…but we can rarely get to 5 weeks without him getting rowdy.

[Team Slytherin]

I want to preference that I'm newer to snakes so I might not have the best advice and someone here might have better. However I have worked with animals that have zoonotic disorders which to me this sounds similar. Now hear me out first. When I worked at a zoo, we had bobcats that were coming into puberty. They would often pace and pace because they were frustrated. With cats, they hunt by smell and sight, so a lot of times if we put toys with new smells on the toys, the cats would stop pacing for a while. Or if we were short on time if we just rearranged their furniture they typically would stop and pay attention to that.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is have you given him things to keep him distracted? Like when you put him in a new enclosure and he stopped for a while. He was probably searching the enclosure and wanting to know more about it so that kept him busy. So maybe rearranging his branches every so often would help. Even maybe having a snake jungle gym that's outside the enclosure that you can put him on for like an hour. That's for you to hopefully tire him out before you put him back in his enclosure. Do this right before the time he usually starts banging.

Now like I said I'm newer to snakes and snake behavior but I'm just trying to think of something that possibly could help.

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No need to qualify that you are new - your instincts are very good! 😁 There is definitely something psychologically unusual going on; it’s just difficult to decipher because he can’t speak English! I do regularly bring him new plants, leaves, roots when I go out adventuring. His branches cannot be moved because they are mounted, but I will regularly add to them. He’s been in this enclosure only a month, so he hopefully isn’t getting TOO bored. We practice choice based handling, so he does know if he comes down to the glass, chances are, I’ll let him out to play.

It used to be easy to let him out to climb on my walls of art, but he has just gotten so big that he just knocks everything over! I’m trying to figure out some good enrichment ideas that can accommodate a snake of his size and athleticism. It’s a tough feat in an LA apartment🤣🤣 He’s 8 feet of extreme intelligence with an ultra-prehensile tail that always wants to grab something…. He is also constantly singing to himself (or me; it’s often difficult to tell)…Apophis has always been an interesting cat, but his current neuroses are definitely causing some concern. He’s been burrowing under his water bowl to escape - which is VERY unusual behavior for an arboreal snake. He’s getting a mouth full of soil every time because he thinks he might be able to get behind the foam background to hide, like he could in his old enclosure. News flash, I built it specifically to prevent him from doing that!

[Bogertophis]

Tell you what- many years ago, the best & smartest dog I ever had or knew came from a shelter at 6 mos. of age- she was a whippet-shepherd mix with a HUGE need for activity, for a job, & she was very focused. She was the sort of dog that drove most people nuts...so maybe that explains a lot about me, lol. She was tireless about finding & fetching things & would have made a great working-search dog. I managed to channel her hyper-energy with training & regular work-outs, & as a result, she was never destructive, & incredibly smart & easy to live with- but she REQUIRED regular exercise & attention. It's a bit like the warning they give for Border Collies- another dog that needs to work, but they're herders; still, when it comes to having a really smart dog, "be careful what you wish for"! You may not get any rest.

I know we're not talking about dogs here, but hear me out: I've also seen some homes custom-modified for their cats, with "cat-walks" (high on the walls, shelves & tunnels, etc) throughout the home, going from room to room, that obviously kept their indoor cats busy- exercised & happy. People do that for pet ferrets too- they sell flexible tubes for them to explore & run thru- a bit like the "Habitrails" they sell for hamsters, only much bigger. They also make tunnels for training dogs- can't say how sturdy they are, but you may need to borrow something from other kinds of animals- something obviously sturdy & securable. (If it could be locked as a "closed loop" for snake exercise...maybe?)

I'm not saying this is convenient or easy- after all, you chose the snake, not me- but maybe you could make something where they could get hours of exercise? It might take a room, but hey? At least give it some thought. Snakes are not built to be stationary objects of our admiration. Not even BPs, but their needs are much easier to meet.

[Team Slytherin]

I've definitely seen the same sort of thing with a bull snake I used to have. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer other than to say I think that perhaps some animals don't belong in cages- at least not of a size that fits in a house. I think the curtain idea helps for some, but for snakes like bull snakes, they're very active hunters, so for us to expect them to sit still all day long, day after day, isn't very realistic, is it? Hormones & the search for a mate may also be part of the problem too.

So the larger the snake is (along with the characteristics of their species) it's more likely to be a problem & should probably figure in to what we choose to keep as "pets". I don't think "racer" type snakes (such as coachwhips) belong in cages either- it's not fair to them. I have no experience with scrub pythons, btw- just with many other kinds of snakes. Even though a snake is captive-bred & "all their needs are being met", not all are going to be "happy campers" because their instincts are very influential, & just because you "can" buy one doesn't mean you "should", nor is it any guarantee it's going to be a great captive pet.

Certainly snakes that are hungry will be more restless, but feeding the snake every time it's pushing will most often end up with a very overweight & unhealthy snake. It's horrible to watch a beautiful snake destroying it's face by pushing- I wish there was a simple solution.

I am very sadly in agreement with you on this. I am very glad I obtained a scrub species that will remain smaller than all others because I just couldn’t keep a 15ft + animal like this in a cage😔 I take solace in the fact that I know he would not receive better care from another, not would he live a more fulfilling life. But when he does this, it breaks my heart because I wish he could be free.

[Neko_snake]

No need to qualify that you are new - your instincts are very good! There is definitely something psychologically unusual going on; it’s just difficult to decipher because he can’t speak English! I do regularly bring him new plants, leaves, roots when I go out adventuring. His branches cannot be moved because they are mounted, but I will regularly add to them. He’s been in this enclosure only a month, so he hopefully isn’t getting TOO bored. We practice choice based handling, so he does know if he comes down to the glass, chances are, I’ll let him out to play.

It used to be easy to let him out to climb on my walls of art, but he has just gotten so big that he just knocks everything over! I’m trying to figure out some good enrichment ideas that can accommodate a snake of his size and athleticism. It’s a tough feat in an LA apartment He’s 8 feet of extreme intelligence with an ultra-prehensile tail that always wants to grab something…. He is also constantly singing to himself (or me; it’s often difficult to tell)…Apophis has always been an interesting cat, but his current neuroses are definitely causing some concern. He’s been burrowing under his water bowl to escape - which is VERY unusual behavior for an arboreal snake. He’s getting a mouth full of soil every time because he thinks he might be able to get behind the foam background to hide, like he could in his old enclosure. News flash, I built it specifically to prevent him from doing that!

No need to qualify that you are new - your instincts are very good! There is definitely something psychologically unusual going on; it’s just difficult to decipher because he can’t speak English! I do regularly bring him new plants, leaves, roots when I go out adventuring. His branches cannot be moved because they are mounted, but I will regularly add to them. He’s been in this enclosure only a month, so he hopefully isn’t getting TOO bored. We practice choice based handling, so he does know if he comes down to the glass, chances are, I’ll let him out to play.

It used to be easy to let him out to climb on my walls of art, but he has just gotten so big that he just knocks everything over! I’m trying to figure out some good enrichment ideas that can accommodate a snake of his size and athleticism. It’s a tough feat in an LA apartment He’s 8 feet of extreme intelligence with an ultra-prehensile tail that always wants to grab something…. He is also constantly singing to himself (or me; it’s often difficult to tell)…Apophis has always been an interesting cat, but his current neuroses are definitely causing some concern. He’s been burrowing under his water bowl to escape - which is VERY unusual behavior for an arboreal snake. He’s getting a mouth full of soil every time because he thinks he might be able to get behind the foam background to hide, like he could in his old enclosure. News flash, I built it specifically to prevent him from doing that!

Thanks. I appreciate the confidence boost. I just know others probably have more experience with snakes so I just feel like I don't fully have the experience to say much lol.

I know this might not be ideal but is there a way you could maybe take him outside even if it's to a nearby park or something. Maybe that could get his energy out. Although the outside world is definitely difficult with any snake like alone a big one so this might not be possible.

Um... Maybe get a ladder that matches your deco and have that for him to climb on. Just take out or open when in use type thing?

And I wonder if he just needs to keep doing the water bowl burrowing until he realizes that's not getting him anywhere or maybe moving the water bowl would help. I'm not sure how arboreal snakes work in that department.

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[Team Slytherin]

Tell you what- many years ago, the best & smartest dog I ever had or knew came from a shelter at 6 mos. of age- she was a whippet-shepherd mix with a HUGE need for activity, for a job, & she was very focused. She was the sort of dog that drove most people nuts...so maybe that explains a lot about me, lol. She was tireless about finding & fetching things & would have made a great working-search dog. I managed to channel her hyper-energy with training & regular work-outs, & as a result, she was never destructive, & incredibly smart & easy to live with- but she REQUIRED regular exercise & attention. It's a bit like the warning they give for Border Collies- another dog that needs to work, but they're herders; still, when it comes to having a really smart dog, "be careful what you wish for"! You may not get any rest.

I know we're not talking about dogs here, but hear me out: I've also seen some homes custom-modified for their cats, with "cat-walks" (high on the walls, shelves & tunnels, etc) throughout the home, going from room to room, that obviously kept their indoor cats busy- exercised & happy. People do that for pet ferrets too- they sell flexible tubes for them to explore & run thru- a bit like the "Habitrails" they sell for hamsters, only much bigger. They also make tunnels for training dogs- can't say how sturdy they are, but you may need to borrow something from other kinds of animals- something obviously sturdy & securable. (If it could be locked as a "closed loop" for snake exercise...maybe?)

I'm not saying this is convenient or easy- after all, you chose the snake, not me- but maybe you could make something where they could get hours of exercise? It might take a room, but hey? At least give it some thought. Snakes are not built to be stationary objects of our admiration. Not even BPs, but their needs are much easier to meet.

I really appreciate this insight! It translates very well to his personality - and I do think this is partly personality and not species-specific. I’ve actually been looking at cat walks and other similar tools to mount and give him things to do to help run his energy out! There have been many unavoidable delays, as my health has been very poor the last couple years and until recently, I was not able to use my hands for building or hanging anything! My walls are covered in art that he used to be able to use as a vertical maze, but he’s such a big boy now that he just knocks everything down🤣🤣 I’m going to use whatever space there is left atop the walls to attach sturdier pieces for him.

He didn’t really start doing this until January. I do know they have a pretty loose breeding season and it’s just about here. Most of my scrub keepers’ responses are, “time to get him a girlfriend!” But I’d really rather him just stop🤣