Seriously underweight baby BP won’t eat

[Bellybelly]

To start off - I actually came across a thread on here that was an almost identical situation to mine right now and it had a LOT of good advice, and I’ve tried a lot of it, with mainly the difference being I haven’t tried live prey yet - I’ll get to why. The previous thread - https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-back-on-track

I had seen this baby BP at the big box store a few weeks in a row when I went to pick up dinner for my other guy, and he was clearly underweight and not thriving. He was marketed as an “exotic ball python” so he was pricey and the employees couldn’t give me any more info than that, but my best guess was he’s some kind of spider morph, because I had caught him wobbling and corkscrewing a few times I visited, not severe, but noticeable. When I pointed it out, the employee laughed and said, “oh, yeah, he’s got a bit of an attitude!” Sigh. They told me he was between 2-3 months old, and that was about four and a half weeks ago, so I’m estimating he’s around four months old.

anyway, long story short, I got him home, set him up in a small tub to start (similar setup to what’s suggested in the pinned thread about baby BPs,) for about a week, then moved to a 10-gal tank with lots of clutter, several hides, the usual. I found I wasn’t able to keep a good temperature gradient in that so a week and half after, moved him up to a 15-gal tank that was longer and narrower, and that’s where he is now. I know that’s a bit big for him right now but he has a lot of hiding places and keeping the temp and humidity just right hasn’t been a problem.

The store employee told me he’d eaten a week before I took him home, which was a little more than a month ago, so I’m estimating it’s been about five weeks since he ate. They were feeding him two pinkies every week, and he was 56g when I brought him home… as of today, he’s 47-48g (he was wiggling a lot on the scale) and hasn’t had any interest in any of the f/t fuzzies I’ve offered, and I once tried offering pinkies from the same store in hopes that he’d maybe eat something familiar, but no go. I’ve tried blasting em with a heat gun too and he didn’t even turn his head. I thought I was maybe on to something tonight because he was flicking his tongue a lot, but any time I went near him with the mouse, he balled up, he almost recoiled from it, like he’s scared. He’s never had live prey and the reason I’m hesitant to try is because of the wobble… but it’s hard for me to get a gauge on exactly how bad it is because he almost never leaves his cool hide. I never see him moving around the tank. I catch him soaking and drinking at the water dish but aside from that he is always in that hide. Since he moved into the big tank I’ve left him alone except for offering food, up until this last week, I’ve been sticking my hand in the hide once in a while just to make sure he’s still alive…! I don’t want to stress him but I also don’t want to come home to a dead baby snake and I haven’t seen him out of the hide in more than a week.

he seems pretty energetic when he does come out of the tank, and has a good grip for how skinny he is, and I don’t think he’s dehydrated, because like I said, I catch him in the water dish all the time, but all the same, he did have a bath today. I just don’t really know where to go from here. At what point do I stop the “just keep trying” approach and consider other measures? I’m thinking next week I’ll have to offer live prey, I read about the bowl trick, and a fuzzy mouse shouldn’t be too dangerous for him, right?

He has a vet appointment coming up this Friday which, might now do anything except stress him out, I don’t know, but I want to make sure he’s at least healthy, as much so as he can be at that weight… (I am trying to figure out how to post my pics but apparently I am dumb so will get some pics in as soon as I can)

[Snow Balls]

How often are you offering food exactly? If you offer to frequently you’re just going to stress him out even further. Moving him from a tub then to a 10 gallon then to a 15 gallon also wouldn’t be helping his situation. Since he’s lost 10g which doesn’t seem like a lot but from 57g that’s a huge loss. I would try a live 1 week after your last attempt after leaving him alone completely. Don’t remove him from his tank to feed him either and if he still doesn’t take you are most likely going to have to assist feed him. What are your temps/humidity?
You can post pictures on an app called Tapatalk


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[Bogertophis]

Just a few thoughts:

Pinkies are too small to feed even hatchling BPs. No wonder he's starving.

Corkscrewing "can" be the spider gene (or other gene) but can also be a sign of serious illness- if you have any other snakes/herps, I sure hope this one is quarantined???

Do you know about snake mites? what they look like (hint, they're TINY) & why they must be eradicated if present? (they kill snakes, no joke) Soaking is often a sign that snakes have mites, because their bites are itchy & irritating, so water feels good. Also, they dehydrate the snake. Snake mites kill snakes by sucking out the snake's blood- enough to cause dehydration, circulatory collapse, & organ failure. They can also spread diseases to snakes.

TRY live prey NOW to get food into him. FYI- pinky & fuzzy rodents (mice or rats whose eyes are not yet open) cannot & will not fight back. It's only after they open their eyes that baby mice & rats defend themselves. (I raise my own rodents, & even had a side business for a few years selling them- it's something I know a lot about. ) Baby snakes often need to eat live prey for a while, their feeding instincts depend on the proper stimulation, and f/t prey just doesn't work for many snakes. If this snake is thin & dehydrated, YOU DON'T have TIME to WAIT. Feed whatever works, now. Feed live if that's what he wants. Try fuzzies first, pinks are like nothing. He needs food to survive. Fuzzies pose ZERO danger. Zero.

Another thing: To quote you "...he seems pretty energetic when he does come out of the tank, and has a good grip for how skinny he is"...
NO handling of a snake that's not eating- eating is "job #1"! Don't handle him until he's eating regularly, easily for you at normal (weekly) intervals, not until he's had at least 3 but preferably 5 meals without refusals (unless in shed, that's an acceptable "excuse"). Weighing is also "handling"- better you let him rest & de-stress so he'll eat, okay? (To weigh a snake, put them in a small bag or box & weigh, then weigh the container by itself, & subtract that weight to find out what the snake alone weighs. This way they'll be sitting still. But for a snake in poor condition, don't do anything, not even weighing, that will hurt his chances of eating.)

[Bellybelly]

How often are you offering food exactly? If you offer to frequently you’re just going to stress him out even further. Moving him from a tub then to a 10 gallon then to a 15 gallon also wouldn’t be helping his situation. Since he’s lost 10g which doesn’t seem like a lot but from 57g that’s a huge loss. I would try a live 1 week after your last attempt after leaving him alone completely. Don’t remove him from his tank to feed him either and if he still doesn’t take you are most likely going to have to assist feed him. What are your temps/humidity?
You can post pictures on an app called Tapatalk


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Thank you, I hadn’t heard of tapatalk, here are some pics then-




I know he’s been moved too much, but too late now to do anything about that except keep letting him settle into where he is now. I’ve been offering food once a week, on the same schedule as my other BP eats, which also lines up with the feeding schedule he was on at the store.

I really can’t tell if he’s any kind of spider morph or not, I’m not an expert by any means, but what he looks most like to me is a pinstripe. And I know that wobbles can also be an effect of illness or just bad husbandry (like the environment he was living in at the store,) so it could have been that… and I haven’t been able to catch him moving around the tank so I don’t know whether or not he’s still wobbling. A lot of factors.

I have checked for mites and I check his water daily also, I haven’t seen anything on him or in his dish or after his baths, but that’s also partly why I’m taking him to the vet this week, to be sure.

I was worried he wouldn’t be able to handle a live mouse but you’re right, a fuzzy wouldn’t be able to do any harm, so that will be my next step. Should I try that before he goes to the vet, like Thursday night maybe? I know he’ll be stressed after the vet and that’s not going to help either.

[Bellybelly]

Another thing: To quote you "...he seems pretty energetic when he does come out of the tank, and has a good grip for how skinny he is"...
NO handling of a snake that's not eating- eating is "job #1"! Don't handle him until he's eating regularly, easily for you at normal (weekly) intervals, not until he's had at least 3 but preferably 5 meals without refusals (unless in shed, that's an acceptable "excuse"). Weighing is also "handling"- better you let him rest & de-stress so he'll eat, okay? (To weigh a snake, put them in a small bag or box & weigh, then weigh the container by itself, & subtract that weight to find out what the snake alone weighs. This way they'll be sitting still. But for a snake in poor condition, don't do anything, not even weighing, that will hurt his chances of eating.)

I’ve only handled him twice, two weeks ago and again today to weigh him, and when moving him into the tanks, all those things I’ve given him at least a week in between, but I know that’s even too much


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[Snow Balls]

I really can’t tell if he’s any kind of spider morph or not, I’m not an expert by any means, but what he looks most like to me is a pinstripe. And I know that wobbles can also be an effect of illness or just bad husbandry (like the environment he was living in at the store,) so it could have been that… and I haven’t been able to catch him moving around the tank so I don’t know whether or not he’s still wobbling. A lot of factors.

I have checked for mites and I check his water daily also, I haven’t seen anything on him or in his dish or after his baths, but that’s also partly why I’m taking him to the vet this week, to be sure.

I was worried he wouldn’t be able to handle a live mouse but you’re right, a fuzzy wouldn’t be able to do any harm, so that will be my next step. Should I try that before he goes to the vet, like Thursday night maybe? I know he’ll be stressed after the vet and that’s not going to help either.

I have never heard of any morph that will wobble because of bad husbandry other than morphs that are known to wobble. He is in fact a pinstripe and they absolutely do not wobble unless there is something wrong. You should take him to a vet but that is going to stress him even worse. Getting a meal or 2 in him should be the main priority or else you are going to have to assist feed him after the vet because he will not eat. As Boger said, I hope he is quarantined away from your other snake


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[Bellybelly]

I have never heard of any morph that will wobble because of bad husbandry other than morphs that are known to wobble. He is in fact a pinstripe and they absolutely do not wobble unless there is something wrong. You should take him to a vet but that is going to stress him even worse. Getting a meal or 2 in him should be the main priority or else you are going to have to assist feed him after the vet because he will not eat. As Boger said, I hope he is quarantined away from your other snake


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They’re on opposite sides of the room, it’s a big room, or do you mean like he should be completely isolated somewhere else? My other guy has been fine since I brought the new one home, no changes to his behavior or eating or appearance at all.

I read that a bad living environment can cause a BP to “become unhealthy and start to wobble” but I’m thinking I probably just understood that wrong, and by “unhealthy” they meant actually ill. The temp and humidity levels at the pet store were way low (for all their reptiles ) but they assured me he was healthy, but, of course, they wanted to sell me a snake…


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[Snow Balls]

They’re on opposite sides of the room, it’s a big room, or do you mean like he should be completely isolated somewhere else? My other guy has been fine since I brought the new one home, no changes to his behavior or eating or appearance at all.

I read that a bad living environment can cause a BP to “become unhealthy and start to wobble” but I’m thinking I probably just understood that wrong, and by “unhealthy” they meant actually ill


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Completely isolated in a different room and separate equipment used for your “quarantined” snakes. If they’ve been together for a few weeks and something is wrong with that particular BP then yours is already infected. IBD is a disease that will make a snake wobble and corkscrew and it takes a while to show up so even if yours looks and acts fine it’ll still take a while to show up. Now I’m not saying your older snake is sick but that’s what happens and it’s a serious condition to watch for


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[Bellybelly]

Completely isolated in a different room and separate equipment used for your “quarantined” snakes. If they’ve been together for a few weeks and something is wrong with that particular BP then yours is already infected. IBD is a disease that will make a snake wobble and corkscrew and it takes a while to show up so even if yours looks and acts fine it’ll still take a while to show up. Now I’m not saying your older snake is sick but that’s what happens and it’s a serious condition to watch for


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I’ll move my other guy into the spare room, then, which obviously won’t do anything if he’s already caught something but still… they each have all their own supplies and equipment, although I’m not sure what equipment besides maybe tongs you’d use between snakes? But I have separate ones for them both.

If my baby does have something, then all the snakes at the store probably do too, right? All their BPS are lined up together, sometimes they even have two in a tank…


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[Snow Balls]

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...antine-process

Yes if your new snake has it chances are others in your pet store have contracted whatever it is that has made yours sick (if your new one is in fact sick) is this a pet store like Petco or Petsmart? Or an actual reptile shop? IMO if any reptile shop or Pet store is housing ball pythons or any kind of reptiles who aren’t meant to be kept together in the first place isn’t worth buying from. It’s a bad practice and shouldn’t be done by any means


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