New(ish) ball python still not eating...

[partlybella]

My young ball python (adopted about a month ago) still hasn't eaten. She's about 17 inches long, estimated about 5-6 months old and I don't have a scale so I can't weigh her but she seems healthy... When I got her, the breeder told me that she was eating f/t hopper mice, and that she was eating every 5-7 days. I got four hopper mice and have tried to feed her every week since I got her (giving her a week to settle when I first got her) and she does not seem interested AT ALL. She definitely notices the smell, but seems freaked out when I dangle the mouse near her.

I'm thinking of trying live feeding to see if that will get her to eat a meal. Other than the low interest in food, she seems happy and healthy. She starts exploring her tank every night around 7 pm and loves watching me through the glass, and hasn't ever seemed agitated or ill.

Any suggestions for getting her to start eating f/t or tips for starting live as an inexperienced live feeder? I've tried two methods for thawing, one was leaving it to thaw in the fridge overnight and then warming it when I was feeding her for a few minutes in warm water, the other was fully thawing it via warm water. I also tried to leave the mouse in her tank over night, and it was not touched. I'm so worried for her, I've grown to adore her over the last month and I definitely don't want to be doing something wrong during feeding that makes her disinterested. I did research for years (since I was 15 or 16) but and every other aspect (her tank, her behavior, etc) seems normal and good. I'm at a loss. BTW - Her name is Koshi and she is a butter ball python! I am perfectly willing to go to a vet if you guys think it's needed, but money is a little tight so I want to avoid it if it's something that can be remedied pretty easily. I know that ball pythons also go on hunger strike, but I didn't think juvenile ball pythons did that often...

[Hugsplox]

Can you tell us a little about your enclosure and what your process is for preparing your feeders? Things like your enclosure size, temprature, hide setup, things like that can help us try to figure out what might be going on.

[EL-Ziggy]

I’d say give her more time to settle in, no handling, and don’t offer food so often. Leave her completely alone except for cage maintenance and only offer food every 2 weeks until she starts eating consistently. It can take a few months sometimes but they ALL eat eventually. Just stick to your routine and she’ll come around. If she was eating f/t prey before I’d definitely stick with that. Best wishes and keep us posted on your progress.

[Bogertophis]

I wouldn't change to live prey if she's been raised on f/t, unless you have good reason to suspect the seller just told you that to make a sale. (I HOPE not!)

I think the problem may be in your "presentation" of the mouse to her: snakes rely on instincts, & in the wild, rodents do NOT "volunteer" to be eaten. They don't approach the snake, & if they do, it's apt to freak the snake out, as you seem to have described.

BPs are "ambush-predators"- they watch from a safe place (like their hides) until clueless prey wanders near enough for them to pounce & "get the drop on them" (ie. taking them by surprise gives the snake an advantage, to avoid getting injured along with the mouse). So when your zombie mice act "aggressive" (approach the snake) it scares them into refusing.

Feeding some snakes (like BPs) on f/t takes some little skills on your part: best time to offer food is at night, & when the snake is peeking out of their hide.

Then, using tongs, give a slight wiggle to the prey but never approach the snake with it. Make it appear to walk by the snake near enough to be noticed but out of reach- see how the snake reacts. You want to see them flicking their tongue with interest, & you want the snake to give a slight "pursuit"- that indicates they feel they're "in charge".

Make SURE the rodent has a heat signature that tells the snake it's alive- many BPs don't recognize prey that has cooled off- many here thaw the rodents, then briefly use a blow-dryer to warm them- especially the head where you want the snake to grab. This is just for BPs- because they use their heat-sensing pits when stalking prey. Many snakes don't have them- my colubrids don't, & they're much easier to feed- their prey doesn't need to be warm, just thawed, & they tend to use their sense of smell more than BPs do.

BPs tend to prefer warm prey- BUT don't thaw in warm or hot water, as that promotes actual spoilage, & many snakes will also reject spoiled prey. (I thaw in cool water only, & then if feeding a BP, briefly warm the prey & offer quickly while it's still warm. My spotted python has heat pits, but even she never cares if prey is warmed. BPs can be fussy about this. They force their owners to "get it right".

------------------------

And it bears repeating- IF you've been handling her at all, STOP. Snakes need time to settle in- no handling until they've fed at least 3+ times. Handling causes them stress instinctively (the only thing that normally picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to EAT them!). Eating is "job #1". Handling can kill their appetite.

Make sure the snake's home has enough privacy too- in a quiet room/location, not being threatened by other pets (or humans, lol), with correct temperatures in the enclosure & several "hides" of the right size for the snake to feel "snug" & safe.

I'm reasonably sure you don't need a vet- they're great for medical/surgical issues, but this sounds like a "husbandry" issue to me. That's "what we do here"-

[partlybella]

Can you tell us a little about your enclosure and what your process is for preparing your feeders? Things like your enclosure size, temprature, hide setup, things like that can help us try to figure out what might be going on.

Absolutely! My process for preparing feeders has mainly been thaw overnight in the fridge (moving them from freezer to fridge) and then warm the prey with warm water. She showed more interest when I prepared the feeder by thawing in warm water solely and keeping it in a bag while I thaw rather than placing the mouse in the water directly. I had done some research and heard that that way of preparing helped maintain the scent of the rodent more.

As for the enclosure, it's a ten gallon tank (longer than it is tall), she's able to stretch out fully in it. I keep a warm side and a cooler side, the warmer side maintained with a heating pad and sprayed with water 1-2 times a day. I like to try to keep the humidity between 50-60%. I also keep a water bowl in there, a hide on either side, and a fake log with tunnels in it and some fake leaves around the middle. The substrate is cypress wood flakes per the seller's recommendation. I keep a towel over the top of the enclosure to give her a little more security and regulate humidity, as well as weigh it down in case she gets strong enough to move the sliding top. I also keep a lamp near the tank that I turn on during the day and off during the night to regulate a day/night cycle in case natural light from the window isn't enough to regulate that well.

I'd be happy to include a picture if that would help at all...

[Bogertophis]

What are the temperatures in her enclosure? Lowest & highest? how are you reading the temperatures? What kind of heat are you using? connected to a thermostat? are you using any lights? Hides? Substrate? Size & type of housing? Humidity? what's on the floor of the enclosure? (it's called "substrate") Posting pics of your set-up might help us to help you.

[Bogertophis]

Unless you'd like to play "hide & seek" with a snake (& trust me, they're way better than we are), I'd suggest that a towel over the top is nowhere near secure enough. Snakes have nothing better to do than test out every weakness in any kind of cage or tank, AND they're drawn TO the "fresh air" coming in thru screen tops or vents, which means a little push is going to happen.

[partlybella]

I wouldn't change to live prey if she's been raised on f/t, unless you have good reason to suspect the seller just told you that to make a sale. (I HOPE not!)

I think the problem may be in your "presentation" of the mouse to her: snakes rely on instincts, & in the wild, rodents do NOT "volunteer" to be eaten. They don't approach the snake, & if they do, it's apt to freak the snake out, as you seem to have described.

BPs are "ambush-predators"- they watch from a safe place (like their hides) until clueless prey wanders near enough for them to pounce & "get the drop on them" (ie. taking them by surprise gives the snake an advantage, to avoid getting injured along with the mouse). So when your zombie mice act "aggressive" (approach the snake) it scares them into refusing.

Feeding some snakes (like BPs) on f/t takes some little skills on your part: best time to offer food is at night, & when the snake is peeking out of their hide.

Then, using tongs, give a slight wiggle to the prey but never approach the snake with it. Make it appear to walk by the snake near enough to be noticed but out of reach- see how the snake reacts. You want to see them flicking their tongue with interest, & you want the snake to give a slight "pursuit"- that indicates they feel they're "in charge".

Make SURE the rodent has a heat signature that tells the snake it's alive- many BPs don't recognize prey that has cooled off- many here thaw the rodents, then briefly use a blow-dryer to warm them- especially the head where you want the snake to grab. This is just for BPs- because they use their heat-sensing pits when stalking prey. Many snakes don't have them- my colubrids don't, & they're much easier to feed- their prey doesn't need to be warm, just thawed, & they tend to use their sense of smell more than BPs do.

BPs tend to prefer warm prey- BUT don't thaw in warm or hot water, as that promotes actual spoilage, & many snakes will also reject spoiled prey. (I thaw in cool water only, & then if feeding a BP, briefly warm the prey & offer quickly while it's still warm. My spotted python has heat pits, but even she never cares if prey is warmed. BPs can be fussy about this. They force their owners to "get it right".

------------------------

And it bears repeating- IF you've been handling her at all, STOP. Snakes need time to settle in- no handling until they've fed at least 3+ times. Handling causes them stress instinctively (the only thing that normally picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to EAT them!). Eating is "job #1". Handling can kill their appetite.

Make sure the snake's home has enough privacy too- in a quiet room/location, not being threatened by other pets (or humans, lol), with correct temperatures in the enclosure & several "hides" of the right size for the snake to feel "snug" & safe.

I'm reasonably sure you don't need a vet- they're great for medical/surgical issues, but this sounds like a "husbandry" issue to me. That's "what we do here"-

The only reason I have to believe the breeder/seller may have been wrong with what he told me she was eating was when I called after about 2 missed feedings and made sure I was giving her the right thing. I didn't speak to the same person, but he said they "feed the bigger ones live", but I don't know what he meant by that. I trust the original man I spoke to, he seemed to understand how the younger snakes were cared for much more than the person I spoke to on the phone.

She is kept in my room, and I live on an old military base so the houses are sound proof to outside noises to keep you from hearing the constant airport noises. The only sounds she would encounter are from me. I'll hold off from handling her. Tomorrow was the day I was going to try to feed again, but I'll wait another week and hold off from interacting besides spraying the tank down. I guess my most important question is that with her age, how long before her not eating becomes harmful to her health? I don't want this to carry on so long that she has health issues.

[Bogertophis]

It's your decision, but I agree it's important that a young snake keeps eating. If you think she may have been fed live, then I'd try that- but just make sure what KIND of live (rat or mouse) as they smell, taste & act different, & of course, must be the right size. Mice- most BPs are big enough to take hoppers, but they can be quite active & scare the snake. Fuzzies are really too small- not enough to eat, but can sometimes make a good "appetizer" (some snakes that only recognize "live" may go on to eat a f/t one if offered immediately- in fact, that's one way to "teach" them).

*******And I'm assuming you're sure all the other bases are covered? (as to all the issues we asked about?) Specifically the feeding techniques I mentioned in post #4?
I don't know what the guy you spoke with meant either: maybe by "bigger ones" he meant the larger, well started hatchlings, but why they'd switch from f/t to live is beyond me?

Snakes are mostly deaf, but they do feel vibrations (& bass notes). If her home was in a living room, for example, where you played loud music/tv, & people walked by frequently, that would tend to make a snake nervous. It doesn't sound like that's any sort of issue.

I hope you're patient, some snakes can be challenging to get started.

[partlybella]

It's your decision, but I agree it's important that a young snake keeps eating. If you think she may have been fed live, then I'd try that- but just make sure what KIND of live (rat or mouse) as they smell, taste & act different, & of course, must be the right size. Mice- most BPs are big enough to take hoppers, but they can be quite active & scare the snake. Fuzzies are really too small- not enough to eat, but can sometimes make a good "appetizer" (some snakes that only recognize "live" may go on to eat a f/t one if offered immediately- in fact, that's one way to "teach" them).

*******And I'm assuming you're sure all the other bases are covered? (as to all the issues we asked about?) Specifically the feeding techniques I mentioned in post #4?
I don't know what the guy you spoke with meant either: maybe by "bigger ones" he meant the larger, well started hatchlings, but why they'd switch from f/t to live is beyond me?

Snakes are mostly deaf, but they do feel vibrations (& bass notes). If her home was in a living room, for example, where you played loud music/tv, & people walked by frequently, that would tend to make a snake nervous. It doesn't sound like that's any sort of issue.

I hope you're patient, some snakes can be challenging to get started.

Replying to this one with your questions about her enclosure as well! I can't seem to figure out how to upload an image, but her tank is a ten gal glass tank (longer than it is tall). I keep the humidity between 50-60%, although it does drop if I don't spray the tank at least once a day. The warm side of the tank is regulated with a heating pad on the outside bottom of the tank, and I keep a temperature node on the bottom against the glass to get an approximate reading. It runs hotter than I would like on the glass, but on the surface of the substrate it's much cooler than the reading on the thermometer suggests. I keep a hide on the warm side as well. On the cooler side there is another hide. In the other space in the tank I keep a plastic log with some tunnels (which she utilizes often as she's exploring) and some fake leaves. The substrate is cypress mulch per their recommendation. I also keep a water bowl in there. I'd love to drop an image if someone can let me know how to upload one from my files LOL

As for the towel you mentioned - I have pins for the top of the tank to keep it secure, the towel is more for her sake. I keep her enclosure on the desk next to the space I work on schoolwork and play video games (with a headset, no loud speakers!), so I keep the towel over it so she's not seeing a shadow move over her every half hour or so. I like to hope it keeps her more comfortable rather than having an open space above her head.

I think I'll keep with the frozen thawed. I definitely agree she might just need more time to settle in without being confronted with food once a week. As for the feeding technique, I'll work on that. I hadn't considered that keeping it closer rather than trying to entice her with it might spook her a bit. For the thawing recommendation, am I correct in remembering you said to thaw with cool water, then heat it with a blow dryer? How long do you heat it with a blow dryer for? I don't want to accidentally char the mouse . If you wouldn't mind, could you give me a step by step on your method of thawing? Both I've tried haven't been successful, and whether that's Koshi needing more time or not, I might as well go with what experienced snake owners recommend.

Thank you so much for your help so far!

EDIT: Forgot to mention! I keep a lamp near the tank (not UV) to regulate a day night cycle in case the natural light from the window across the room isn't really enough. (it's kind of dim, Arizona windows are tinted)