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  1. #11
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I'm sure he enjoys the moss and feeling the "closeness" with moss in the hide. And partly I think snakes also enjoy the natural "plant fragrance" that moss has. Misting it now & then- not overkill- shouldn't hurt anything, at least I hope not. Just wanted to clarify that it's not something I've been doing with mine, so I can't "promise". Deserts just aren't humid, normally. But I'm not one to say "it's my way or the highway" either, lol. I think this TP is in good hands w/ you & I hope you enjoy him as much as I enjoy mine.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  2. #12
    Registered User TofuTofuTofu's Avatar
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    So just an update: I texted the breeder and he said this snake had been on rat pups. I had previously asked what he was eating but he had just said "f/t or live" and didn't say what, so I assumed it was mice because I've never heard of anyone feeding TPRSes, or snakes similar to this, rats. He also revealed to me that he was drop feeding him.

    So, I did try to feed him a mouse last night (defrosted in a baggie so it wasn't wet, and I brained it--or at least, poked a small hole in its skull). He will go smell the mouse if it's on tongs, and seems curious about it, but again, he wouldn't take it. I have left it in overnight and it is still there this morning, so I'm kind of doubting he'll take it, unless he likes it stinky and near-decomposing.

    Anyway, I may be able to get a frozen rat from my friend who has a red tail boa, in order to scent the mice. Do you think I should try scenting them? I'd rather not just buy a pack of rats, which would mean he'd be eating rats for like another year-plus, and it would be a waste of money for me. I'd prefer to get him on mice because it's what I have, and I have never seen anyone recommend rats for this species.

    Basically, should I be trying to scent by his next meal (assuming he refuses this one, when should I try next?), or should I try to get him to take mice without it? Would he just be hungry by then? It has probably been about 3 weeks since his last meal, which was with his previous keeper.
    ----------
    Animals in my house:

    1.0 Green Iguana
    1.0 New Zealand Rabbit
    1.0 Blonde Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
    1.0 Japanese Rat Snake
    ? Panda King Isopod Colony
    6 Blue Death-Feigning Beetles
    4 Hellburnt Diabolical Ironclad Beetles

  3. #13
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Quick question about body condition/weight

    Quote Originally Posted by TofuTofuTofu View Post
    So just an update: I texted the breeder and he said this snake had been on rat pups. I had previously asked what he was eating but he had just said "f/t or live" and didn't say what, so I assumed it was mice because I've never heard of anyone feeding TPRSes, or snakes similar to this, rats. He also revealed to me that he was drop feeding him.

    So, I did try to feed him a mouse last night (defrosted in a baggie so it wasn't wet, and I brained it--or at least, poked a small hole in its skull). He will go smell the mouse if it's on tongs, and seems curious about it, but again, he wouldn't take it. I have left it in overnight and it is still there this morning, so I'm kind of doubting he'll take it, unless he likes it stinky and near-decomposing.

    Anyway, I may be able to get a frozen rat from my friend who has a red tail boa, in order to scent the mice. Do you think I should try scenting them? I'd rather not just buy a pack of rats, which would mean he'd be eating rats for like another year-plus, and it would be a waste of money for me. I'd prefer to get him on mice because it's what I have, and I have never seen anyone recommend rats for this species.

    Basically, should I be trying to scent by his next meal (assuming he refuses this one, when should I try next?), or should I try to get him to take mice without it? Would he just be hungry by then? It has probably been about 3 weeks since his last meal, which was with his previous keeper.
    So that's why he looks very "well-fed"- rat pups are higher in fat & lower in bone-building minerals than what is good for them as a forever-diet. When I used to raise rats, I'd share the occasional one (rat fuzzy/pup) with my TPs, especially the female that produced several clutches of adorable hatchlings. My TPs have always been good feeders, though I know that like any snake, they can get fixated on the taste of whatever rodent they've been raised on.

    Rats would NOT be a good diet long-term for TPs, because the only size that "fits" the adult snake is a sub-adult (ie. fatty) pup- you always want to be feeding the rodent that fits the best that is ALSO the most adult form of it's species- in this case, adult mice. Snakes need the minerals from the larger bones, larger muscles, etc.

    One thing you can do is to thaw a rat pup together with a mouse, or rub one on the other to mix the scents before offering. You have time, btw, to work on this guy's appetite- he's not starving!

    Honestly, if that snake lived with me, I'd offer him some live fuzzy mice (eyes closed!) because most TPs will slurp them up like candy. That will help teach him the mouse flavor is yummy too. If he takes a live fuzzy, then use one as an "appetizer" for a while (ie. give one live fuzzy, & then offer a f/t small mouse right after, since that fuzzy sure won't fill him up). I wouldn't bother "braining" f/t rodents- just pinch-damage the nose with your feeding tongs, right before offering, to release a little more scent.

    Never assume. This is what can happen when you forget to ask all the necessary questions BEFORE you buy a new snake. You get some surprises that aren't very convenient. But this too should pass- you can fix this- you likely just have to persist a while.

    Oh, & if he was being drop-fed, this snake may be a bit of a shy feeder, so feed at night. When you use a live fuzzy mouse, & IF he won't accept them from your tongs (try first) just put them in a shallow but heavy (so it won't tip) flat-bottomed bowl in his home at night- you might also leave a f/t mouse there as well, after you find out if he will accept the live fuzzy mouse. They should disappear overnight, & most likely, you can gradually get him to eat from tongs. ALL of my TPs wolf down f/t mice from tongs- any time. You can do this. And so can he.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 10-04-2021 at 12:04 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  4. #14
    Registered User TofuTofuTofu's Avatar
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    To be fair, knowing he was on rats wouldn't have negatively influenced me getting this snake, nor would it have deterred me from purchasing mice instead because mice is what he should be eating. I think my situation would have been pretty much the same, other than maybe I would have been less confused by the food refusal initially. The fact that he is a little pudge definitely eases my worries about his refusal so far.

    Just FYI, I'm not willing to do live feedings (lots of reasons like, I don't know where to get them, I'm not willing to house an animal just for feeding purposes, it would be complicated if he refused the live mouse/I'm not willing to kill it myself in this case, there is no one else to feed it to because our other snake is too small, etc). I'd like, rather force feed than do live feedings, lol, although I strongly doubt that would happen in the future and am just using that as a comparison.

    I'm going to try scenting, and will maybe just wait another couple weeks so he may be more willing to eat it.

    Just wondering, though: Does a frozen rat still transfer its scent as well as a thawed one? Meaning, if I get one frozen rat from my friend, can I use it to scent several mice over a longer period of time instead of thawing the entire rat just to scent a mouse? Because then I'd just be wasting an entire rat for every mouse feeding. Or I could maybe divide the rat into pieces and just thaw parts of it for scenting, if the frozen rat's scent would not be as strong? Anyone have experience with this?

    This sounds gross, but I'd even be more willing to make my own kind of rat "extract" than buying a bunch of rats to scent (maybe like heating one rat in some water and saving the water to scent the mice?). Only problem is, I don't know how long such an extract would last before it goes bad (unless I froze it?). Just a thought. I know you can buy scenting materials on sites like ReptiLinks, (they don't have rats, though), and I am guessing they make them in a similar fashion.
    Last edited by TofuTofuTofu; 10-04-2021 at 12:24 PM.
    ----------
    Animals in my house:

    1.0 Green Iguana
    1.0 New Zealand Rabbit
    1.0 Blonde Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
    1.0 Japanese Rat Snake
    ? Panda King Isopod Colony
    6 Blue Death-Feigning Beetles
    4 Hellburnt Diabolical Ironclad Beetles

  5. #15
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Quick question about body condition/weight

    Quote Originally Posted by TofuTofuTofu View Post
    To be fair, knowing he was on rats wouldn't have negatively influenced me getting this snake, nor would it have deterred me from purchasing mice instead because mice is what he should be eating. I think my situation would have been pretty much the same, other than maybe I would have been less confused by the food refusal initially. The fact that he is a little pudge definitely eases my worries about his refusal so far.

    Just FYI, I'm not willing to do live feedings (lots of reasons like, I don't know where to get them, I'm not willing to house an animal just for feeding purposes, it would be complicated if he refused the live mouse/I'm not willing to kill it myself in this case, there is no one else to feed it to because our other snake is too small, etc). I'd like, rather force feed than do live feedings, lol, although I strongly doubt that would happen in the future and am just using that as a comparison.

    I'm going to try scenting, and will maybe just wait another couple weeks so he may be more willing to eat it.

    Just wondering, though: Does a frozen rat still transfer its scent as well as a thawed one? Meaning, if I get one frozen rat from my friend, can I use it to scent several mice over a longer period of time instead of thawing the entire rat just to scent a mouse? Because then I'd just be wasting an entire rat for every mouse feeding. Or I could maybe divide the rat into pieces and just thaw parts of it for scenting, if the frozen rat's scent would not be as strong? Anyone have experience with this?

    This sounds gross, but I'd even be more willing to make my own kind of rat "extract" than buying a bunch of rats to scent (maybe like heating one rat in some water and saving the water to scent the mice?). Only problem is, I don't know how long such an extract would last before it goes bad (unless I froze it?). Just a thought. I know you can buy scenting materials on sites like ReptiLinks, (they don't have rats, though), and I am guessing they make them in a similar fashion.
    Fresh live rat has the most scent- frozen, not so much. If you can get some used (dirty) rat bedding (the more feces the better, lol) from a pet store, that should work quite well to roll the f/t mouse in prior to feeding. (better if the mouse is damp, to hold the scent "eau de rat") Plus you can re-use the dirty bedding.

    Who knows what will ultimately work best in this case? Ya gotta do what you gotta do at this point- he's your snake now.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 10-04-2021 at 06:29 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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