WLP getting tested for Inclusion body disease.

[Awesomethepossum]

Honestly I'd be surprised if it were crypto since you've had him a year. If it is then the only reason he's still alive is because of the exemplary care he's received from you.

I've been trying to read up on it more, trying to find anything to ease my mind or rule it out, but the symptoms seem pretty generic and just bring up more questions

I've had this snake for a year now, and I'd say he was hovering close to a year old, give or take, when I got him. If he's 2 years old, he hasn't grown very much in that time.

I'm not sure what other possibilities there are here. But if this is something that's exacerbated by stress (considering this is a very stress sensitive species) I'm sort of surprised it wasn't worse during all the vet visits, treatments and prodding he was getting last year

He was gaining weight, eating every 6-7 days from the first week of October into the first week of January. He regurgitated on 1/13, but went into shed a week or so after, so I had assumed that it was stress. I waited another week after he shed to feed another mouse, and he upped it a day later, undigested. Right now he's back down to his previous weight.

The only other thing I could think of is that the hookworms never resolved. The vet didn't think that could be the case though. I feel really bad for this snake.

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[Awesomethepossum]

Honestly I'd be surprised if it were crypto since you've had him a year. If it is then the only reason he's still alive is because of the exemplary care he's received from you.

Thank you for the kind words. From you, Bogertophis, and everyone else. The support I get from you guys, I really appreciate it.

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[Bogertophis]

I was wondering the same thing, about the hookworms. And I hate to say this, but I wonder if he could have caught something while at the vet's? So hard to know, with a stressed snake that has been exposed to so much along the way.

[Awesomethepossum]

I was wondering the same thing, about the hookworms. And I hate to say this, but I wonder if he could have caught something while at the vet's? So hard to know, with a stressed snake that has been exposed to so much along the way.

They said he didn't need another follow-up after the treatment, no fecal was done after the course was completed. She said he wouldn't be regurgitating unless the hookworm infestation was high. But, maybe it is.

I never really though about how it works. But I just read that Metronidazole can block the reproductive cycle of adult worms, but I didn't see anything about it killing the oocysts. Maybe I'm wrong.

Or... maybe he did catch something.

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[bcr229]

Unfortunately nothing kills oocysts except ammonia, which is not a treatment option for your snake.

Crypto is also highly contagious which means if you have other snakes they're at risk.

[Awesomethepossum]

Unfortunately nothing kills oocysts except ammonia, which is not a treatment option for your snake.

Crypto is also highly contagious which means if you have other snakes they're at risk.

I meant hookworm eggs, not oocysts. I've been researching as much as I can all day, used the wrong word. Just tired and worried.


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[Awesomethepossum]

I've been doing as much research as I can, but Id say it's led to more questions on my part.

In terms of symptom onset, progression once clinical signs have begun, i wasnt sure if there was a general timeframe to it after they do start showing symptoms associated with this?

From what I had read, typically snakes don't survive more than a year after they're showing clinical symptoms. From stories that I've read from others at least, it seems like the decline is rapid and death soon after, once the animals is newly acquired or otherwise infected by another animal, maybe delayed by a few months.

With this guy, the seller had him for 3 months (if I recall correctly) before selling him, to treat him for internal parasites and make sure he was eating. When I brought him home, he ate enthusiastically for 3 months or so and was very active and healthy by all appearances, then during the last week of June, he refused his first meal unrelated to being in shed, and I noticed him being more lethargic, then anorexic in turn.

Never once had issues with regurgitation, only had a small amount of blood with diarrhea at the end of his metro treatment when he had also passed some small, pointy debris as his body cleaned out. Vet warned me ahead of time that it was normal, and it didn't happen again after that.

After treatment, he was a very enthusiastic eater, but was still skittish about f/t, so I only gave live hoppers. Still could spook during feedings, which wasn't a noticable issue prior, but he's also a WLP. He gained a solid amount of weight in a relatively short time, and the vet was impressed with his condition.

So, aren't these technically symptoms, and would they be this easy to delay in snakes? I'm not sure if a 3 course Metro treatment would repress crypto for a bit, and this is a rebound? But with all the tube feedings, frequent vet visits and handling, probings he got for such a long time, not once did he regurgitate, and I would think that would be the time it would be more of a risk?

I'm not really sure how common or inclined a snake would be toward regurgitation if this was a rebound of an unresolved hookworm infection, either. Or what the chances of that are here. But I'm confused as to how this has been progressing, and if this is typical of crypto if that's what it could be, if that makes sense.

Just trying to understand this. I'm still in shock honestly. Not trying to pretend a serious issue isnt here, but what else could it be?


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[Bogertophis]

I don't think Flagyl ("metro-") would have any effect on crypto.

It still hasn't been confirmed that your WLP has crypto, has it? Wasn't that just an educated guess from your vet? I'd try to get some prey into him as was suggested, so if (or when) he regurgitates, you can get a diagnostic test done & so you'll actually know what you're dealing with. Until then, I would not assume it has to be that- but practice good isolation for whatever it is.

If he won't take any prey, I'd try another tube-feed to see if you can at least get a stool sample for testing.

I'm sorry this has been so frustrating & complicated to deal with. Maybe there's some truth to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished". But even with c/b snakes from good sources, we never know when something could go terribly wrong. No living things are infallible- I just wish snakes weren't so stoic.

And some of these questions (like about the hookworms) are better directed to your vet.

At this point, from where I sit, I don't think either crypto or hookworms are ruled out, but there could also be something entirely different that's wrong.

I know how hard this is, & how badly you want this beautiful python to survive & be healthy- so do I- & the uncertainty is just awful. Hang in there.

[Awesomethepossum]

I don't think Flagyl ("metro-") would have any effect on crypto.

It still hasn't been confirmed that your WLP has crypto, has it? Wasn't that just an educated guess from your vet? I'd try to get some prey into him as was suggested, so if (or when) he regurgitates, you can get a diagnostic test done & so you'll actually know what you're dealing with. Until then, I would not assume it has to be that- but practice good isolation for whatever it is.

If he won't take any prey, I'd try another tube-feed to see if you can at least get a stool sample for testing.

I'm sorry this has been so frustrating & complicated to deal with. Maybe there's some truth to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished". But even with c/b snakes from good sources, we never know when something could go terribly wrong. No living things are infallible- I just wish snakes weren't so stoic.

And some of these questions (like about the hookworms) are better directed to your vet.

At this point, from where I sit, I don't think either crypto or hookworms are ruled out, but there could also be something entirely different that's wrong.

I know how hard this is, & how badly you want this beautiful python to survive & be healthy- so do I- & the uncertainty is just awful. Hang in there.

She didn't confirm it. I expect the educated guesses, that's how the processes starts. She put cryptosporidosis on the table and we left it at that. It's just left a lot of room for me to worry. Same went with the IBD.

She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.

After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.

She said it would be fine, but I'm still worried about offering him food again so soon after regurgitating. I've waited a few more days, since this 2nd regurg was 2/24 and I was just nervous about giving him time to recover. I hope this won't be too soon.

I'm going to the store tomorrow to get a small live hopper, the smallest they have. I'll get some Nutribac on it with a bit of water. Maybe that'll help.




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[Bogertophis]

She didn't confirm it. I expect the educated guesses, that's how the processes starts. She put cryptosporidosis on the table and we left it at that. It's just left a lot of room for me to worry. Same went with the IBD.

She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.

After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.

She said it would be fine, but I'm still worried about offering him food again so soon after regurgitating. I've waited a few more days, since this 2nd regurg was 2/24 and I was just nervous about giving him time to recover. I hope this won't be too soon.

I'm going to the store tomorrow to get a small live hopper, the smallest they have. I'll get some Nutribac on it with a bit of water. Maybe that'll help.




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This shouldn't be "too soon" after his latest regurge on 2/24, as long as the prey is on the small side. And I'll be hoping you finally have some better luck with him.

I don't think IBD is at all likely- but crypto, who knows? I vaguely recall a thread* from a gal in Europe who got a corn snake from a pet store, & struggled with it (regurgitating meals)- it was really unusual because sometimes it showed a small mid-body swelling, but then it would disappear, which makes no sense at all. (*I'm not sure if that thread was on this forum or not, it's been a while.) I'm so sorry that you're having to worry about crypto as a possible cause.

Anyway, I assume your vet ruled out blockages, whether from swallowed undigestible debris, or an abnormal growth-like a tumor? Some animals (of all kinds) can be born or hatched with an abnormally narrow passageway in their digestive tract, that only shows up when they grow. And your vet should be the one to come up with other possible causes- as far as internal parasites or other seldom-seen diseases. If you're not convinced about the hookworms being the possible issue, I'd ask more questions about that too. (But maybe he'll finally keep this one down, eh? I HOPE!)