ball python underweight and not eating

[Scelery]

The only thing the breeder told me was that he feeding them f/t so I'm not sure when he was last fed or how often he was fed.


When I first got him I noticed straight away that he was underweight. I contacted the owner and they denied that he was underweight. I tried contacting them again with more questions, but they never responded after that.


I didn't notice any weird sounds coming from him or saliva
However, I did notice that he yawned a couple of times the first day I got him. I didn't think much of it at the time but I did keep a close eye on him. The first whole week I had him made sure I did not bother him.
After that week I tried offering him food twice a week but had no luck.


He wasn't eating and he was frequently yawning. I got scared.
I wasn't sure if maybe he had a RI? so that's when I decided to take him to the vet


They gave him a physical check-up and told me "he seems fine, no blockage or anything. He's just a little underweight. If he doesn't eat the next week you should fed him live."


He has not gone to the bathroom for me, that I know of? I'm scared to move anything around in his tank atm, but when I check on the temps I'll be sure to look around his tank for any unusual stools.




When I feed him, I brain it and I hold the fuzzy by its hips so the head is facing in his direction. I know eating is a stressful process for them so I try and make it so if he does grab it, it's by the head first.


I first got him to eat it took about 15mins. He never struck at it?
I got his attention when I brained the mouse
He stared it down, I was thinking he was going to strike at it but he didn't
He sat with his mouth open for a good 6 seconds not doing anything
so I just decided to place it in his mouth and from there he started to slowly eat it
That's how I got him to eat the first two times, after that I had no luck



Thank you so much! I really do appreciate
I'm gonna take your advice and get a good heat signature when I'm feeding him the prey and recheck his habitat to see if I can fix anything that might be a problem? Cause I really want him to eat


and congrats on your clutch!

[Scelery]

I had him for about two months so I thought he would be used to his new enclosure? I've been told that if they keep trying to escape it means there is something wrong with their habitat. I'm not sure what the problem is so that's why I mentioned the wall climbing
Someone on the thread mentioned that his hides might be too big so I am going to get him smaller hides. I want him to feel safe in his enclosure so I see that I have to make some changes

I asked the vet about his weight multiple times!! All they kept telling me was I should be feeding it live as f/t because it's not healthy for them and if I feed him in my tank I'm more likely to get bit? I've always been told that once they ate you should bother/handle them for at least 24hours?
I could care less about the biting. I was just worried about his weight, but I don't think they were
so I don't know if I'll be going back to that vet




When he peeks its head out of his hide is when I offer him food. The night he struck and coiled I did go and reheat the prey hoping he would try again
sadly he didn't come back out of his hide
I occasionally do leave the prey in his tank overnight. On that night I did leave it in his tank
but I don't think he came back out of his hide that night


Don't worry I'm not handling him at all! I promise
I know handling can be stressful for them and with him not eating I don't want to make things worse.


I got this little guy off a website. The pictures they showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight he is now
I tried contacting them multiple times but they never got back to me
I'm honestly just happy this little guy survived the shipping process.
It's really upsetting to see him so underweight
I was really hoping the vet would help out with him but they didn't say much on about his weight




Thank you so much for your feedback! I try and feed him every five days like you said and also do research on how to properly feed a bp. I'm hoping I can learn something and get him to eat
And by small meals do you think I should offer him pinkies as well? I feed him fuzzies now
when I got him to eat the first two times they were with the pinkies


Also thank you for the link. I'll definitely check it out
The sooner I can get him to eat the better

[Bogertophis]

I'll get back later with more (it's my dinner time), but yes, pinkies ARE too small for a BP. Even fuzzies are really too small for a hatchling BP, however- when a snake is this thin & malnourished, they may also not have adequate digestive enzymes for a larger meal- all bodily functions are tied to a snake having good nutrition & proper hydration to function & digest meals.

He should be on small hopper mice soon, IF he's taking fuzzies now (either live or f/t), but I'd just take it cautiously*- especially since you mentioned earlier that he only wanted pinkies. Normal hatchling BPs are big enough to eat hopper mice, but this guy's in guarded condition & the last thing you want is for him to regurgitate his meal. (And yes, that's another reason the vet you saw is clearly out of touch- handling a snake after a meal in a side cage makes regurgitation more likely- that's assuming they'll be brave enough to eat at all after you've handled them to put them there in the first place. BPs are shy snakes- handling them distracts them from feeding. Some snakes won't care, but most BPs will.)

Also, offering food too often can stress a snake that's not eating into more refusals- for this guy, I'd try every 5 days because he's so thin- usually I'd suggest not more often than every 7 days for most snakes (with good body weight), but taking small meals every 5 days would help this guy, if you can talk him into it.

I applaud you for being willing to learn & really fight for this guy- you're just what he needs. And again, we'll help you all we can here to help him.

[Bogertophis]

Okay, more thoughts about your 2 long & helpful posts above:

I'm not surprised (& don't worry!) that this snake hasn't defecated at all yet. Young rodents are very digestible (smaller bones, less fur)- there isn't much waste leftover for your snake to expel. It's normal for snakes eating young rodents to eat a number of meals before they have to go- it's not a problem, unless he starts looking bloated above his cloaca (aka "vent"), or you feel some hard lumps in that region (snakes occasionally can form urate "stones" that can block them up). So- not to worry.

Reputable snake breeders should be providing feeding records & hatch date- & in some places, are also required to provide a general care sheet. (been there, done that )

Snakes often yawn after eating, to re-set their jaws (so their teeth align properly- their flexible jaws sometimes get a little out of whack). Why your snake yawned when you first got him, I can't say, but if you saw no signs of an RI (bubbles, crackling or whistling sounds, excess saliva) don't worry about it. Good that you thought to check with a vet, just picked the wrong one it seems.

Snakes are very stoic- it's hard enough for a vet to diagnose them, & unless you find a real specialist with experience, many have little knowledge of snake husbandry, even if they're willing to let you pay them for their time. Vets also focus on medical & surgical interventions- they don't have time for discussing every aspect of general care (even if they know), & often, that's what needs to be fixed.

Good that you know to look for "unusual stools"- things like red color (blood) or mucus, etc. Later on, it might be helpful to have a fresh stool sample from this guy analyzed, in case he has intestinal parasites going on, but just work on feeding him for a while now first, & don't worry about it. Eating is "job #1".

Many snakes know instinctively (or from practice) that baby rodents pose no danger to them, so they don't bother constricting. It's fine, not a problem. If he was raised on f/t, that's also why he just ate without fuss. There's nothing wrong with how you offered (though I'd pinch the nose rather than 'braining'- yuck!) & hopefully warmer prey will get a better response from him.

I agree with using smaller hides- something just a little bigger than he is, with only one doorway that's not too big- & low "ceilings" are preferred.

Feeding live is normal for what happens in nature, & often young snakes need to start on live rodents while they're practicing their proper food response- after that, it's best* to switch to f/t or f/k (frozen-thawed or fresh-killed) *because it's more humane, more convenient, & way safer for the snake (sooner or later, snakes get hurt when more mature rodents object to being dinner & bite back). It's fairly unusual for a vet to recommend feeding only live- any exotic vet with much experience has stitched up plenty of snakes injured by their live prey, not to mention that many people keep rodents as pets too. There's also very little nutritional difference for your snake, but live prey can transfer intestinal parasites (worms) to your snake, whereas f/t won't.

There are ways to signal to your snake that you're not incoming prey & avoid nips- for one thing, learn your snake's body language, but also let them know who you are by scent & touch (their best senses). That old story about snakes biting you because you feed them in their home enclosure is just nonsense- spread by those who have learned nothing about communicating with their snakes, or about reading their body language. You're correct about leaving your snake to rest for at least a day or 2 after he eats (once you're handling him, that is).

This seller didn't get back to you because they knew darned well what they did (selling you a snake in poor condition).

[Snagrio]

Not much else I can add here that others already haven't, but just wanted to send best wishes. Really is unfortunate that you got duped and ended up with a snake with a rough start. Hopefully the poor little guy pulls through.

[Bleh]

learn your snake's body language, but also let them know who you are by scent & touch (their best senses).

100% this. And it isn't always obvious either. Can take years and you'll still second guess what you may be seeing!

Right now, as I type this, my enchi pin is giving me the indicators that she is eager for food and it's just passed 09.00 am. This ties in to her shedding just two days ago, but I want to weigh her today so she won't have her meal tonight (although she will eat the same day she's handled as I've mistakenly discovered in the past, but I tend not handle on feeding days).

I also prefer to feed on Saturday or Sunday evenings.

And on top of this, my chocolate (bell line) male is an extremely shy eater and doesn't give any seemingly obvious indicators that he's hunting for food. If I get him to strike and constrict, it's a bonus, but he generally prefers the prey left overnight and you just cross your fingers you come down to an rat free home the next morning.

So two examples at completely opposite ends of the spectrum for you to consider.

Personally, if I was in your position right now, I would seriously contemplate force feeding for the animals own welfare now, just to get the nutrients into the body.

But I would also like to stress that I only have a fraction of the experience that other here do, and you've already been advised by some very knowledgeable keepers.

It will ultimately come down to what you decide is the right course of action at the right time.

Good luck, I hope his eating kicks in for you soon. My biggest worry is when they go off eating, and BP's are notorious for it!

[Scelery]

Thank you for all the advice and support! You have no idea how much it means to me.
I've been reading all the posts and tried all the things you guys recommended


Last night I was able to get a pinkie in him.
I rinsed the prey with cold water first before putting them in the warm water to thaw it.
I didn't know about the nose pitching trick. Thank you for that! --It's a lot nicer than pushing out the brain guts--




When I fed him last night, I went in from the top of his enclosure instead of opening up the front door to try and feed him. That way, his tank is still covered, and he wouldn't be able to see me. I also minimized the amount of wiggling so I wouldn't scare him off.


I did offer him both a fuzzy and a pinkie last night. The fuzzy first and then the pinkie right after (I hope that's ok?)


He didn't take it either, sadly.
I didn't want to wait another five days of him not eating, and the probability of him eating the next time I would offer it seemed unlikely.
so I decided to force-feed him last night




I was hoping it would be more of an assist feed, but I end up having to push it down his throat a little


He did start eating it by himself once I got it halfway down his throat. The prey did go into his belly. I checked on him this morning and saw the little bump still into his stomach, so he didn't regurgitate it. I'm happy that he didn't.
I am gonna wait the five days like you guys said, and then try and feed him again.




For his next scheduled feeding, I want to try and do the same thing I did yesterday night. Offer him a pinkie to see if he would eat it by himself and if he doesn't, force-feed him again? Just until he's almost at a healthy weight and just not skin and bones.
Or do you think that's a bad idea?


I know he should be eating fuzzies or hopers because of the calcium and nutrition they have.
But I didn't feel comfortable force-feeding him something that big. I was scared he would be more likely to regurgitate it because of the size.


Every time I tried feeding him a fuzzy before, to me, he just looked scared of it? He would always back away from it and go into his hide.
The one time he did strike at it, he dropped it right after and went back into his hide.
so that's why I decided to go with the pinkie instead




I don't plan on handling, weighing, or bothering him at all until he starts constantly eating. I want him to be a healthy little boy.


Also, I did order the small box hides yesterday. They should be coming in tonight!
Do you guys think it would be ok if I change out hides today? or do you think I should wait? It hasn't been a full 24hours yet since I feed him.
I don't want to stress him out more than he probably is now, and I know changing their environment does just that.


I'm hoping the reason he isn't eating is because of the hides that are currently in his tank. So I do want to change them as soon as possible if I can.


He's been a little less active once I completely coved his enclosure, but he is still roaming around during the day (My room is really quiet, so I can hear him when he's out and about.)


I'll love any advice or criticism anyone has for me
Thank you all again!

[Snow Balls]

How warm is the prey you're offering? It should be warm but not hot to the touch and they cool down very fast. By a fuzzy and a pinky do you mean a rat or a mouse? You did good by going in from the top and keeping everything covered so he doesn't see you. I would suggest avoiding the pinky and sticking with the fuzzy, the pinky wont give him enough nutrients compared to the bigger fuzzy. You want to put weight on him but not to much weight in a short amount of time. Since you did assist feed him and he continued to eat it after is a good sign. Give him some more time alone. Go ahead and change out his hides when you can, just leave them in the same places as the ones you had previously. Him being less active during the day is also a good sign. I would keep him on that 5 day feeding schedule until he gets some size on him, then switch to weekly feedings

[Bogertophis]

I'm not a fan of force-feeding (in part, because it can cause or reinforce the snake's fear of the prey by association), but it's truly essential that one way or another, you get some food into this snake & keep on doing so.

One way to think about it is this: when a person is in the hospital, too sick to eat, they're given nutritional support in the form of an I.V.- without that, they may never have the energy or feel well enough to want to eat, to get their appetite back & have their body recover.

We can't do that (give an I.V.) for a snake- so the next best thing is easily digestible nutrition, in the form of "frequent" (every 5-7 days) small feedings of easily digested prey or in the form of a liquid diet that is tube-fed. The HOPE here is that after one or multiple feedings, that your snake's natural appetite will kick in, so always TRY to offer food (prey) naturally first, & then only if it's refused, do what you need to do to get some nutrition into him. When a snake is this underweight, be prepared for it to take a long time to get his weight up to where it should be. There's no telling how long it will take before he eats willingly, but we're all crossing our fingers for you (& him) that it's sooner rather than later.

BTW, I'd probably wait a day or 2 to switch out the hides- just to make sure that the disruption doesn't stress him into regurgitating his food. I would expect his digestion may take longer than it would for a more healthy snake- just because a snake that isn't eating isn't making a surplus of digestive enzymes that are essential to get the job done easily. Getting him healthy & strong again will take time & be a slow process.

[AutumnVanilla]

....Sounds to me like the seller showed you early photos when this snake was a hatchling (with decent body weight) but at 18" long, he's likely a year old, not a hatchling......

I agree with everything you say, but just for FYI, but our female BP is 2.5 month old, 20.4" long at 97g; she grew about 1.5" since we got her last month.

...I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies...

Since he is eating pinkies, I personally would keep trying f/t pinkies; are these rat or mouse pinkies? Rat pinkies have better nutrition/calories. Since he is small and needs the nutrition, if he takes pinkies, I would keep trying every 4-5 days. If he eats, keep that up until he starts showing gains and is eating regular, and then you can try to move up in size from there and should be able to spread it out to every 5-7 days.

I would keep offering what works and not change anything yet. Our little one should be on rat fuzzies, but she still shys away from them, so we either do a small mouse or a large rat pinkie [whatever our local store has available]- something around that size.