why does everyone hate on out of cage feeding?

[Jamiekerk]

The problem here is that others come to this forum for best advice, & this surely IS NOT it.

What you can get away with for ONE snake is NOT a reason to recommend a method that has been tested countless times by others with real snake experience & with many snakes, myself included, and has been shown to be a bad idea.

The best reason NOT to feed snakes in a side container/cage is that for many snakes, it kills their desire to eat- at all! Snakes are shy, & handling them often causes fear, which means they won't eat. Fear interrupts their interest in food.

Even IF your snake is now comfortable being handled, you're MORE likely to get bit this way, because snakes stay in "feed mode" (pumped up to attack prey) for hours & sometimes even days after eating. Even if you get away with picking up your hungry snake to move them out of their home, you're likely to be setting yourself up for a nasty "feeding" bite afterwards when you try to put them back.

Feeding bites are where a snake is "sure" that you are prey & won't let go. Now I'm not saying that a ball python is going to overpower you, but bites hurt, & you are likely to injure THEM when trying to get out of the dumb position you put yourself in to begin with. Furthermore, if this practice (feeding in another container) is applied to larger snakes, it can actually be dangerous- & as I said, this forum is here to promote "best practices"- that means we don't want owners OR their snakes to be injured.

Another problem with feeding in side cages is that when owners wait a while for the "feeding response" of the snake to wane, they often forget & the snake gets loose. You'd be surprised how often this happens.

Also, that side cage is virtually never "heated" & depending on your home temperatures, the snake may be at temperatures that are too chilly. Even worse, when you need to handle the snake to return them to their home, they're somewhat likely to regurgitate the meal they just had, just because of the handling.

Saying that "it's always worked fine for me" truly isn't saying much. Your recent thread "Help with ticks" (see link below) tells me everything I need to know about your lack of experience, & when you lack experience, you should come here to learn but refrain from giving advice. Okay?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...=1#post2761590

The feed response is real man, I would never feed my large females out of setups they stay in feed frenzy for hours sometimes days. I can’t even walk close to the vivs when they are in feed mode.

Why do people worry about substrate getting stuck yeah a large amount can cause blockages but do u think I’m the wild they catch a rat and go time to move this somewhere cleaner so I don’t get dirt in my mouth.


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[PiesThatBind]

BP's generally do not go on the offense and stalk down their prey out in open spaces. They are ambush predators who prefer to attack from their hides and tag unsuspecting prey in the environment they know every inch of. When hungry, at night you'll see them posted at the side of their hide's entrance with only their heat pits exposed.

Moving them to a foreign open air cage face-to-face with their prey cuts against the grain of everything they naturally prefer. They may be hungry enough to push through and eat in that context. But it's most likely causing unnecessary stress in an animal already prone to anxiety that cements negative feedback loop behavior.

[keg11v]

Thought I'd relate this:

I've been feeding my two ~20 year old BPs out-of-cage in cardboard boxes for about a year or two now. While I will say the feeding response can be intense and nerve racking (to the point that I'm considering abandoning this method), one thing that has helped is laying a pillow case over them for a couple minutes before trying to pick them up and put them back in the enclosure. I've found that blocking out the light for a bit seems to make them sort of "shut down", and then I can go and pick them up with the pillow case still covering them, and they've never struck at me that way.

[bogie]

I have a 5ft BP in a 40gal front loading tank. She has a fair sized clay dome hide and she prefers to hunt from there. I have started feeding her mice which she seems to prefer over rats in a big way and she hunts differently. With rats, even very small ones, she is very cautious and may take up to 2 hours or more to take them. With adult mice, 30 seconds is a long time for it to be in the cage. I tried putting her in a tub but that was hit and miss. Dropping a mouse near her front door is fast bad news for a mouse and she will sometimes come out and ask for another like she did yesterday. She is soooooooo much easier to feed in her own turf. Also I see people concerned about the debris they pick up with the food. Well that would happen in the wild and it just goes down with the food and comes out when they poop. The system is designed to work that way and has for millions of years. I have coir on the floor of the tank and there has never been a problem but I see some in the poop which is to be expected. No harm no foul.

[Claire&snek]

I have always fed in a plastic container outside of the enclosure because my snake will roll her wet frozen thawed rat around and if It were in her enclosure (eco earth substrate) it would look like someone covered a desert in Oreo and chocolate. She also has an amazing feeding response and doesn't care whatsoever even if with an audience. I say if it has always worked and your snake is fine with it than no need to switch methods which could cause stress too. This is just my snake and my positive experience though and is not always true for everyone.

[KMG]

I have always fed in a plastic container outside of the enclosure....

How long is "always"?

I also get a little chuckle when those with Ball Pythons don't see an issue with it. Of course you don't. It's a Ball Python. Come move some of mine to feed in another enclosure. Please bring antiseptic.

Not that a Ball Python can't/won't bite. Mine is pretty intense at feeding time waiting on the air drop. I'm sure she would tag me if I wasn't careful.

[Hugsplox]

How long is "always"?

I also get a little chuckle when those with Ball Pythons don't see an issue with it. Of course you don't. It's a Ball Python. Come move some of mine to feed in another enclosure. Please bring antiseptic.

Not that a Ball Python can't/won't bite. Mine is pretty intense at feeding time waiting on the air drop. I'm sure she would tag me if I wasn't careful.

I know you have a few larger snakes but when I read this all I could think about was trying to haul 50 pound bloods out to feed lol. Not just the big guys though, could you imagine trying to move some of the more quirky species on feed day? I keep western hognoses too and I don't about yours but if I breath wrong they won't eat for a month. I just don't see the benefit in moving them.

[KMG]

I know you have a few larger snakes but when I read this all I could think about was trying to haul 50 pound bloods out to feed lol. Not just the big guys though, could you imagine trying to move some of the more quirky species on feed day? I keep western hognoses too and I don't about yours but if I breath wrong they won't eat for a month. I just don't see the benefit in moving them.

Yep, I can't imagine moving my Bloods or Dum to feed outside. Even the ETB and GTP being much smaller would be a nightmare. With their teeth!?! I bet it would look like a murder scene trying to get them out of their cages.

Also the logistics of having a large collection and trying to feed them. Where do you put them all? Do you go one at a time? It would take forever. I much prefer tossing a rat to each and leaving them to it.

My Hoggy is a great eater with a chill attitude. My first though sounded like yours.

[EL-Ziggy]

A few simple reasons to not feed snakes outside of their enclosures.

Klauss has the longest strike range of all my snakes and like most snakes he's EXTREMELY fast. The first, and constant, challenge is getting him out of his enclosure with no bloodshed or poop. The second obstacle is where do you put a hungry 8.5 ft scrub python to feed him? Is this an open or closed container? Either one has it's own set of problems. Let's say you get this far and then manage to get the rat to him. Then comes the hardest part. Moving him back into his enclosure without more bloodshed, more poop, AND maybe he pukes. I've assessed the risks and benefits of this scenario and it's a hard NO for me. When I feed him in his cage I can safely slide open the door, step to the side, offer the rat on some long bbq tongs, stuff him back into the cage with the rat in his mouth when he lunges out, close and lock the cage, and move on to the next snake.



She-RA is my only snake that I can't feed from tongs. She's a food psycho! She's the snake I always feed first. I don't even know if you can call it feeding. It's more like wait until she's looking away, quickly open the door, throw the food in, and shut the door before she lunges out of the enclosure. The other day I threw the food in, she missed it but lunges halfway out the enclosure as I'm closing the door. The rat was behind her but I still had to use a hook, which she bites anyway, to stuff her back in her cage. Outside of feeding times she's usually a sweetheart but does have her cranky days too.



Monty isn't a big guy but gram for gram he hits his food harder than any of my other snakes. I'm a little scared to see how hard he'll hit as an adult.



The prosecution rests.

[Bogertophis]

It's very simple: when snakes are the shy & docile-types (like most BPs), any handling to put them in another location for feeding can stress them into refusing to eat at all.

If they're the other type YOU can be easily mistaken for "the prey". If bleeding is your "thing", well okay then, suit yourself. "Feed mode" can last a while- hours or a day++ so do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?