How did retics get so popular?

[Snagrio]

Oh wow this thread blew up again.

While not even REMOTELY on the same level as a retic or other giants, I feel the same about my dream of getting a Vietnamese blue beauty snake in terms of waiting until the time is right with the research and resources and what have you. The little corn snake I brought home a couple months ago has been rather ornery lately (a bad combination of moving to a new enclosure and then entering shed soon after has left him in a very defensive state, I'm leaving him be best I can for the time being), and part of me is weirdly happy about that? My only experience beforehand has been with a completely placid ball python, and I want a snake with more fire in their bones so I can "work up" to a VBB, who will be larger, faster and potentially more testy than any corn.

Not that I want him or a future VBB is constantly flip out every time they see me of course, but the idea is I'll be "practiced" and know how to deal with it.

[YungRasputin]

I hope, for your sake, he encourages you to practice both alpinism & handling large snakes (or other dangerous animals) only with someone else around for assistance if needed- if not him, then someone else with equal skills & understanding. I assume you do want to "stick around" to enjoy your critters, bf & other interests, so if that's the case, don't take silly risks. Self-preservation is a prerequisite...

despite how it may sound, i am not a risk taker, everything i do re: previously discussed activities, are v calculated actions done with a lot of thought - i do intend to be in it for the “long haul” - i have been keeping arachnids for 26+ years, and with this snake collection, it’s the realization of a lifetime dream that i didn’t think would be obtainable as i am exceptionally poor but now that i am here, i would absolutely say i have found my home in the animal kingdom, big snakes rule!

[Bogertophis]

despite how it may sound, i am not a risk taker, everything i do re: previously discussed activities, are v calculated actions done with a lot of thought - i do intend to be in it for the “long haul” - i have been keeping arachnids for 26+ years, and with this snake collection, it’s the realization of a lifetime dream that i didn’t think would be obtainable as i am exceptionally poor but now that i am here, i would absolutely say i have found my home in the animal kingdom, big snakes rule!

So one difference with snakes is that they can & do become sick & need medical care, which is expensive. It's honestly irresponsible to keep animals for which you cannot provide medical care as needed, & while that may not be an issue with arachnids, snakes require different things, & it's a package deal. Sorry, but I've seen too many people that can't wait to buy the animal of their dreams yet fail to budget beyond the initial purchase of the animal. Food for large snakes isn't cheap either, nor are the large secure (!) enclosures they require, & adequate heat. Sure hope you have a plan for all that.

[YungRasputin]

So one difference with snakes is that they can & do become sick & need medical care, which is expensive. It's honestly irresponsible to keep animals for which you cannot provide medical care as needed, & while that may not be an issue with arachnids, snakes require different things, & it's a package deal. Sorry, but I've seen too many people that can't wait to buy the animal of their dreams yet fail to budget beyond the initial purchase of the animal. Food for large snakes isn't cheap either, nor are the large secure (!) enclosures they require, & adequate heat. Sure hope you have a plan for all that.

well:

1) prior to purchasing any of my snakes i talked to 2 of my friends who have big snakes (1 of which also keeps hots and (oddly enough) an alligator) who has directed and gave me the info for a really good veterinarian that treats big snakes

2) just the fact that there are vets who will treat snakes is a giant plus to me because one of the big drawbacks in arachnid keeping is shouldering the burden of medical care yourself and relying on the wisdom and techniques of older keepers

3) also prior to purchasing any of my snakes i made sure to find a source for other frozen/thawed prey items which, given feeding regiments posted by other keepers and the prices of the prey items themselves i have determined that with the snakes i own, etc that this is within my capabilities

4) i looked at adult enclosures before i did anything and took those costs into my consideration process - i am already saving up for the adult enclosures as we speak

another expense that i actually like is - at most if my scrub where to give me a real good bite, i might have to get stitches, which would be expensive but nowhere near as expensive as if i got tagged by any of my Androctonus, Hottentotta, etc scorpions - a couple of which could be fatal even with immediate medical attention (eg: Hottentotta tamulus) - so a lot of things here which other people might see as negative are actually a big deal/big plus for me personally - big relief

[Bogertophis]

well:

1) prior to purchasing any of my snakes i talked to 2 of my friends who have big snakes (1 of which also keeps hots and (oddly enough) an alligator) who has directed and gave me the info for a really good veterinarian that treats big snakes

2) just the fact that there are vets who will treat snakes is a giant plus to me because one of the big drawbacks in arachnid keeping is shouldering the burden of medical care yourself and relying on the wisdom and techniques of older keepers

3) also prior to purchasing any of my snakes i made sure to find a source for other frozen/thawed prey items which, given feeding regiments posted by other keepers and the prices of the prey items themselves i have determined that with the snakes i own, etc that this is within my capabilities

4) i looked at adult enclosures before i did anything and took those costs into my consideration process - i am already saving up for the adult enclosures as we speak

I'm glad you've given these things some thought- I mentioned it because you previously said

... i am exceptionally poor...

which is a bit of a red flag.

In case you need to find more vet options, this site is helpful: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

You'd be surprised at how many times we've gotten posts here from people with snakes asking our help for medical care that's neither possible or advisable (much less ethical) online because "they cannot afford a vet". We just don't want you (or anyone else) to get "in over their head"- it's easy to do that- we all know how enticing herps are.

[Bogertophis]

...
another expense that i actually like is - at most if my scrub where to give me a real good bite, i might have to get stitches, which would be expensive but nowhere near as expensive as if i got tagged by any of my Androctonus, Hottentotta, etc scorpions - a couple of which could be fatal even with immediate medical attention (eg: Hottentotta tamulus) - so a lot of things here which other people might see as negative are actually a big deal/big plus for me personally - big relief

I can see where it seems like merely needing stitches is far better than dying from a sting. On the other hand, I can remember hearing (on another forum, it's been quite a while since) about a long-time highly-experienced keeper of big snakes that ended up getting out of them after he suffered a deep bite that caused serious nerve damage to his hand/wrist. And hopefully I don't have to point out that constriction can be just as fatal as venom?

[YungRasputin]

I'm glad you've given these things some thought- I mentioned it because you previously said which is a bit of a red flag.

In case you need to find more vet options, this site is helpful: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

You'd be surprised at how many times we've gotten posts here from people with snakes asking our help for medical care that's neither possible or advisable (much less ethical) online because "they cannot afford a vet". We just don't want you (or anyone else) to get "in over their head"- it's easy to do that- we all know how enticing herps are.

oh yes i absolutely appreciate this - as of now i am still within my paygrade, even accounting for emergency care which i have started a savings for and my money situation will greatly improve once i finish mortuary school

[YungRasputin]

I can see where it seems like merely needing stitches is far better than dying from a sting. On the other hand, I can remember hearing (on another forum, it's been quite a while since) about a long-time highly-experienced keeper of big snakes that ended up getting out of them after he suffered a deep bite that caused serious nerve damage to his hand/wrist. And hopefully I don't have to point out that constriction can be just as fatal as venom?

of course it is possible but i think this largely comes down to maintaining strict protocols and learning how to properly read the animals - the only envenomation i have ever received wasn’t from my collection but from a wild adult female black widow because i stupidly didn’t shake out my outdoor shoes - it’s entirely possible to go through your whole keeping career without ever being tagged by arachnids if you observe strict safety protocols that i assume would be similar to that of hot/big snake keepers

also comes down to not doing stupid stuff imo eg: putting a big snake around your neck, purposely creating negative experiences to get “cool” striking pix, etc - the more i go on this journey and the more i think on it - a lot of negative things i think could be avoided

[Bogertophis]

of course it is possible but i think this largely comes down to maintaining strict protocols and learning how to properly read the animals - the only envenomation i have ever received wasn’t from my collection but from a wild adult female black widow because i stupidly didn’t shake out my outdoor shoes - it’s entirely possible to go through your whole keeping career without ever being tagged by arachnids if you observe strict safety protocols that i assume would be similar to that of hot/big snake keepers

also comes down to not doing stupid stuff imo eg: putting a big snake around your neck, purposely creating negative experiences to get “cool” striking pix, etc - the more i go on this journey and the more i think on it - a lot of negative things i think could be avoided

Reading the animals well, & planning every move (never making dumb ones- like snakes encircling your neck, lol) is a big part of it, yes. Using the safest methods whenever there's an option.

And I agree that "tags" are avoidable- I never got bit working with hots. It means being focused, & never working w/ them when tired, distracted*, feeling poorly, or anything less than 100% sober, & not under any "influence" legal or otherwise. (*distracted includes showing off, having too much going on around you, etc)

But so is not working giant snakes alone- over-estimating your own KSA's. For example, keepers have gotten in trouble being alone when opening an enclosure to feed. Or I remember some years back, one guy was found (dead- constricted) in the outbuilding with one of his large snakes he'd been trying to medicate for something- the snake "objected" & he had no one else there with him. I think it's safe to say that arachnids don't have the physical power that giant snakes do- therein lies the big (pardon the pun) difference.

[YungRasputin]

Reading the animals well, & planning every move (never making dumb ones- like snakes encircling your neck, lol) is a big part of it, yes. Using the safest methods whenever there's an option.

And I agree that "tags" are avoidable- I never got bit working with hots. It means being focused, & never working w/ them when tired, distracted*, feeling poorly, or anything less than 100% sober, & not under any "influence" legal or otherwise. (*distracted includes showing off, having too much going on around you, etc)

But so is not working giant snakes alone- over-estimating your own KSA's. For example, keepers have gotten in trouble being alone when opening an enclosure to feed. Or I remember some years back, one guy was found (dead- constricted) in the outbuilding with one of his large snakes he'd been trying to medicate for something- the snake "objected" & he had no one else there with him. I think it's safe to say that arachnids don't have the physical power that giant snakes do- therein lies the big (pardon the pun) difference.

conpletely agree, and i have noticed that i unconsciously get in the same sort of zen focus that i get in when climbing that i do when i work with my “top tier” hots - i also think this comes down to species, size and the physical capabilities of the keeper themselves in addition to avoiding negative situations

eg: personal capabilities - i regularly curl 75 lbs, sometimes 100 lbs per arm as part of my lifting routine, so outside of reckoning with length, i am perfectly capable of supporting a 50-60 pound animal with 1 arm or 150-200 lbs with both arms combined and this is likely to increase overtime (insha’allah)

eg: species - scrub pythons may be long but they’re extremely thin and not girthy in the slightest and I’ve read that “fat” scrubs are still only like 60 or so odd pounds - so provided it doesn’t coil your neck, it’s extremely unlikely to be a fatal thing and i am unaware of any deaths attributed to BCCs, scrubs, D/SD retics, yellow anacondas, etc

eg: size - i think the size of BCCs 6-8 ft or exceptional specimens 8-10 feet, is in the range of it being safe for 1 person to work with them - i think once you get past that, with some species, then this might be an issue which would require additional people but to the same token, a 11-13 foot scrub is vastly different in capabilities to a female yellow anaconda of the same size (perhaps i am wrong but i feel this is correct)