How did retics get so popular?

[Snagrio]

This question hit me today as I was just doing my usual browsing on Morph Market. There's something surreal about the fact you can get the longest snake in the world just, delivered to your door, and all for a couple hundred bucks if not even less.

I know they have a sizable morph scene which always boosts any given snake's popularity, but there's got to be more than that because I find it so strange that an animal that is (or at least should be) beyond the care capability of most people is so common in the trade that I even see some regularly pop up in local classifieds, where you're lucky to see more than the usual 3-4 beginner species at any given time.

[Bogertophis]

There's always some people who are attracted to what they perceive is the ultimate challenge to prove themselves to others- whether it's keeping the most "bully" breed of canine, or holding a snake that strikes fear into most everyone else, or driving the fastest car, or climbing mountains, or many other similar pursuits. Unfortunately, when the personal challenge involves a living animal with it's own (& instinctively wild) agenda, it doesn't always work out as anticipated- some things aren't so easy to live with, much less afford, & in time, many owners realize they made a mistake.

As long as people keep BUYING these things, others will keep cashing in by selling them, suitable pets or not. I think very few people are actually equipped to really care for these giant snakes- in terms of skills & experience, in terms of back-up help that's reliably available, in terms of financial investment for the life of the animal (including a place to live that's not subject to changing rental terms or changing local laws), in terms of the suitable space to securely keep them healthy (& not just coiled up forever in some lousy tub!), & the sincere commitment to stick with them for the long-haul life of the animal(s). The initial price of such a pet is only a tiny part of what is required, but it's nearly impossible to get that across to an enthusiastic buyer.

[Snagrio]

There's always some people who are attracted to what they perceive is the ultimate challenge to prove themselves to others- whether it's keeping the most "bully" breed of canine, or holding a snake that strikes fear into most everyone else, or driving the fastest car, or climbing mountains, or many other similar pursuits. Unfortunately, when the personal challenge involves a living animal with it's own (& instinctively wild) agenda, it doesn't always work out as anticipated- some things aren't so easy to live with, much less afford, & in time, many owners realize they made a mistake.

As long as people keep BUYING these things, others will keep cashing in by selling them, suitable pets or not. I think very few people are actually equipped to really care for these giant snakes- in terms of skills & experience, in terms of back-up help that's reliably available, in terms of financial investment for the life of the animal (including a place to live that's not subject to changing rental terms or changing local laws), in terms of the suitable space to securely keep them healthy (& not just coiled up forever in some lousy tub!), & the sincere commitment to stick with them for the long-haul life of the animal(s). The initial price of such a pet is only a tiny part of what is required, but it's nearly impossible to get that across to an enthusiastic buyer.

Seems to echo the iguana problem from decades past. I mean, it still IS a problem don't get me wrong, but the public seems to have wised up to the fact that they aren't suitable for most.

Only this time, there's a ton of fancy colors to keep the facade going unfortunately. And snakes are, imo, easier to care for than lizards on average so it's therefore easier to "get away with" keeping snakes in subpar conditions no matter the size.

[bcr229]

In 2015 US FWS put retics on the Lacey injurious list which made it illegal for interstate transport. During the time period (60 days?) between when US FWS announced it's intention to put them on the list and when it went into effect people purchased whatever retics they could, figuring they'd better get the genes/morphs they wanted before interstate transport was banned. As a result of that high demand/interest period the popularity exploded and has remained high ever since.

Of course, USARK sued, won, and while retics can no longer be imported, all critters on the Lacey injurious list can now be shipped interstate unless state law prohibits them (e.g. Florida, Hawaii). The judge essentially ruled (IMO correctly based on the language of the Lacey Act) that US FWS overstepped its authority.

Now there's a bill before Congress to prevent interstate shipping of Lacey list species, and even though the bill seems to have stalled it appears that the mere threat of a ban is keeping demand high. Since political discussions are more or less frowned upon on this site, I will withhold a long discussion about how government bans of various things inevitably backfire.

[FIREBLADE]

I totally get where everyone is coming from Burmese anaconda's retics or rock pythons in the wrong hands can be dangerous there is no doubt.
But there are people out there who own them and understand them and of course the dwarf species.
I wished there was way more education by breeders asking questions before the sale, but you can say that about many things from Guns to Rottweilers, they all deserve respect.
But once you let government decide what people should or shouldn't own you open pandoras box.
I love my Retics and spend a lot of time making sure there safe and things are safe from them.
some people will never understand why anyone wants reptiles' period and when I go to shows I bring adults just because I want people to understand what they're buying.
But the people that scream the loudest about banning anything and everything are the once with the least amount of knowledge about the subject.
in my opinion and that's all it is my opinion i would love to see more education less banning trying to ban anything only makes people want whatever you're trying to ban even more.
And that is the worst reason to buy anything.

[Armiyana]

They've always been popular, but with the internet being as big as it is the popularity grew even faster after 2005. Along with the risk of legislation brought up above.

I remember when someone offered to get me a tiger retic back in '99. It wasn't like it was difficult or anything. Just not as common because reptile ownership was still fairly niche. Also anyone who wanted something that big was pretty much set on having to build their own enclosures pre-2k because it was impossible to find people who made cages as a business unless you already happened to know that one person in your general area. Once more people started popping up selling enclosures and habitats online, the easier it became to own these larger species people may have turned down before for more manageable sized critters.
At least that's my take on things. I've only ever really considered the dwarf retics because I don't have the extra bodies on hand to assist with maintenance and so on. I'm the only reptile keeper in my group of people. hahah

[Hugsplox]

Now there's a bill before Congress to prevent interstate shipping of Lacey list species, and even though the bill seems to have stalled it appears that the mere threat of a ban is keeping demand high. Since political discussions are more or less frowned upon on this site, I will withhold a long discussion about how government bans of various things inevitably backfire.

in my opinion and that's all it is my opinion i would love to see more education less banning trying to ban anything only makes people want whatever you're trying to ban even more.
And that is the worst reason to buy anything.

I'm a big advocate of education over legislation.. so to speak. (I'm pretty proud of myself for that little rhyme )

We've had several threads here along the same lines as this one and when the USARK alerts go out about the importance of education and policing our own within the hobby. Unfortunately what happens a lot, and I'll avoid going on a long political rant as well, but I think with some things the government feels it's easier to ban than put any kind of licensing system or education requirements in place. I would love for everyone to be able to keep whatever they want, but I do like the idea of you having to take some sort of class prior to bringing home something like a retic. Similar to the concealed carry classes some states require you take before getting a weapons permit. You pay a fee to attend the class, and after you can go get your permit. It's not incredibly time consuming, but it offers people the chance to learn in a safe environment. Now obviously, doing this with reptiles would be hard there's a slew of requirements and regulations for those who would be giving the classes, but just an idea other than "let's just ban them!"

Anyway, back to Snag's original question, bcr hit the nail on the head with the bans really driving up the demand for these snakes. Think late 1919, just before prohibition went into effect, people stockpiled booze like they were never going to be able to get it again, because they didn't think they would.

[nikkubus]

For me personally, before lacey act bans I had zero interest in retics, and was unaware dwarves or super dwarves existed. That ban is what brought it all to my attention. With that ban in place preventing imports and the realization of SD, it became quite appealing to want to preserve those pure locality genetics as best as possible because they could disappear from the hobby entirely without dedicated hobbyists ensuring their survival and breeding. While I would love to be able to care for a mainland, it's absolutely not in the cards right now and may never be, and I'm just not the type to bite off more than I can chew to that great of an extent. Many people think they can handle it when they can't, or tell themselves "by the time it gets that big I will have X to care for it" and they almost never do. Time gets away from us, I know that quite well.

Aside from that, I think some of the big retic people have really warmed hearts showing off just how great of a personality a retic CAN have with all the added exposure of them since the ban. They are not boring snakes akin to a pet rock, but instead, incredibly active, incredibly curious, and incredibly clever. If you do have the means to care for them, they are really awesome pet snakes to have, but no way can a single person with limited space and income handle a mainland.

That ban really had the reverse effect they wanted it to, didn't it? haha

[Bogertophis]

I'm a big advocate of education over legislation.. so to speak. (I'm pretty proud of myself for that little rhyme )

We've had several threads here along the same lines as this one and when the USARK alerts go out about the importance of education and policing our own within the hobby. Unfortunately what happens a lot, and I'll avoid going on a long political rant as well, but I think with some things the government feels it's easier to ban than put any kind of licensing system or education requirements in place. I would love for everyone to be able to keep whatever they want, but I do like the idea of you having to take some sort of class prior to bringing home something like a retic. Similar to the concealed carry classes some states require you take before getting a weapons permit. You pay a fee to attend the class, and after you can go get your permit. It's not incredibly time consuming, but it offers people the chance to learn in a safe environment. Now obviously, doing this with reptiles would be hard there's a slew of requirements and regulations for those who would be giving the classes, but just an idea other than "let's just ban them!"

Anyway, back to Snag's original question, bcr hit the nail on the head with the bans really driving up the demand for these snakes. Think late 1919, just before prohibition went into effect, people stockpiled booze like they were never going to be able to get it again, because they didn't think they would.

That's exactly what came to MY mind from bcr229's post: The historical & epic fail of "prohibition", lol. Not just stockpiling, but a black-market boom. Oops.

Hugsplox, I agree with you, not just for giant snakes but for the hots too- don't ban but make sure they're in competent hands. That's the best way to prevent clueless impulse-buyers, and that's way better for the animals too.

[YungRasputin]

i’m still preparing for my retic adventure but i have couple big snakes and an arachnid collection containing the most venomous tarantulas, scorpions, etc on earth, 1 of which hasn’t even been formally classified or studied by science and my perspective is: once you understand that all animals are basically the same and that it just takes exhaustive research to take care of them it’s like, well, why not? same with other “adrenaline junkie” activities like mountain climbing, power lifting, etc (feeling slightly called out here because I’m into all of those things lmao) - once you understand how easy it is to get into, why not?

it is curious however given their size and needs, but i’m definitely happy for it - the key to all these animals imo is just being on top of your research game and most importantly, be able to have the resources to meet their extensive care needs

the reptile game has always been p crazy because it was only a couple decades ago that dudes were just selling Nile crocs lmao