Can ball pythons be housed together?

[nikkubus]

Breeding is very temporary sharing space, and then they can go back to their own enclosures. I don't even agree with breeders who house pairs together for long periods of time. When I pair BPs, they are together for 3-5 days at a time, though some species do take a bit longer and have more courting rituals. Zoos are not a good measure of how animals should be kept for ideal health, as one of their primary concerns is displaying animals. Reptiles do not have any social needs like mammals as they do not have the necessary brain parts for that, the same brain parts that would allow them to learn to cooperate and share without being stressed out. I suppose if you gave them an absolutely giant enclosure, with a huge selection of hot spots, water, hides, and had all females or the perfect ratio of males to females, it might not be as bad, but it's still not ideal, there is still competition of the best spots. I just really can't see any good reason to do it to justify the amount of risk. Dogs/cats/rabbits/etc NEED companionship (though sometimes a human companion is enough). Reptiles are perfectly happy never seeing another of their species their entire life, and being handled only when necessary.

There is no need to blast people for asking questions or failing to understand why it's such a big no-no in the hobby before having a deep discussion about it. Asking questions doesn't make one a bad pet parent, it makes them a good one. Trying something like that without asking the questions or doing the research is a different story, though I still don't think it makes them "bad", it's just a mistake. Bad is when you know its wrong, you know why it's wrong, you do it anyways, and refuse to correct it.

[mlededee]

Our goal here is to promote the best way that we know of to house and care for ball pythons. That does not mean that you can't discuss other methods. But it does mean that one particular method might be accepted as the safest or the best.

Would it be best for a beginner to co-hab their ball pythons? No. Would it best best for someone without a fair amount of knowledge and experience to co-hab their ball pythons? No. So that is not the general advice that you will see given here.

Please keep this discussion on topic. (Comparing ball pythons to dogs and other warm blooded animals is not on topic, nor is discussing various unrelated issues with these types of animal.)

Please keep this civil. Infraction points and removal of posts will come next if that cannot be achieved.

[KMG]

Ok. Got it.

[Ascended]

Please keep this discussion on topic. (Comparing ball pythons to dogs and other warm blooded animals is not on topic, nor is discussing various unrelated issues with these types of animal.)

Please keep this civil. Infraction points and removal of posts will come next if that cannot be achieved.

Agreed.

Our goal here is to promote the best way that we know of to house and care for ball pythons. That does not mean that you can't discuss other methods. But it does mean that one particular method might be accepted as the safest or the best.

Would it be best for a beginner to co-hab their ball pythons? No. Would it best best for someone without a fair amount of knowledge and experience to co-hab their ball pythons? No. So that is not the general advice that you will see given here.

.

That Seems a bit like s fixed opinions and no room for thought, change or developing, learning or exploring or knowledge. that's not for me.
With that view, The sun goes around the earth! ,Copernicus was wrong to challenge that and make us think about other possibilities is heracy?
I guess this site is not for me then.

[mlededee]

That Seems a bit like s fixed opinions and no room for thought, change or developing, learning or exploring or knowledge. that's not for me.
With that view, The sun goes around the earth! ,Copernicus was wrong to challenge that and make us think about other possibilities is heracy?
I guess this site is not for me then.

So we should not promote what we feel to be the best method to do something? For instance, I am not going to say that feeding a ball python crickets is fine to experiment with. We already know that ball pythons don't eat crickets. So we don't need to encourage people to do something that might bring harm to the animal.

My point is that people tend to promote what has been proven to work best. Beginners and those new to the hobby tend to have the most success when they stick with proven methods.

Yes, you can discuss methods that are unproven or unknown. But do not get offended if in that conversation one particular method that is known to work for people gets promoted the most.

[GoingPostal]

Every snake without a thermostat doesn't get burned, but we still understand why it's important to use one to prevent injuries. Cohabbing species that don't naturally do that behavior seems the opposite of good husbandry to me. I found the pics from a recent post on a local page, I'm just not sure how anyone cohabbing would prevent this or why it would be worth the risk to your animals to experiment on them.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hugsplox]

My point is that people tend to promote what has been proven to work best. Beginners and those new to the hobby tend to have the most success when they stick with proven methods.

This I think is something we have to put in the front of our minds when we're discussing these husbandry practices. I see this a lot on the aquarium forums, and I know fish and reptiles aren't the same, but they are in the sense that there are established care guidelines for certain species that cannot be kept in groups. A very advanced keeper will say something to the effect of "it works for me" or "I've been keeping X for 20+ years and never had an issue" etc etc, and new keepers with no experience assume it's okay, and end up with dead/injured/sick animals.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing alternative husbandry practices, I would just ask that the more experienced of us try to remember our audience.

I encourage you to safely experiment with different things, and then bring your findings here to discuss, but you can't be mad when people have counter arguments on why what you're doing may not be right. As an example, the thread we had awhile back about the big breeder's feeding method. That gentleman tried something new, presented his findings, and we as a community determined that we wouldn't be recommending that method to anyone based on scientific and established facts.

Much like that scenario, the benefit of keeping multiple BPs together is for you the keeper not for the animals, and I think you'll find most people here advocate for the wellbeing and safety of the animal above the desires of the keeper.

Respectfully, claiming that we all have fixed thinking, and then citing Copernicus and Galileo as the reason we're all wrong comes off as a little pretentious.

[Cheesenugget]

Can you do it? Sure, you can do whatever you want. It doesn't mean it will result in success, failure or nothing happens.

Should you do it? Nope.

Specifically, by cohabbing or initiating social behavior where there normally wouldn't be under regular circumstances, how will this benefit the animal? We see this in animals like wolves, elephants, fish, even some reptiles like the shingle back blue tongue skink. Social behavior comes with sacrifice: the animal has to share food, time, space, energy and sometimes give up its breeding rights to sustain the group, not the just the individual, as a whole. While the tradeoff stands to be better, it's not for every species.

As far as I know, there had been no sightings or records of ball pythons exhibiting social behavior with another that is outside of breeding and courting behavior. Just because you find a few bunched together in the same burrow doesn't mean it's social seeking- it could mean that they both are seeking warmth and that is the warm spot, there is only 1 hide to use, the hide is suitable and desirable for both snakes, etc. Using gopher tortoise tunnels as an example, you will find a variation of different animals living in the same tunnel, including eastern indigos and small mammals, and yet predation is rare when they are resting in the same area. Does that make the eastern indigos friendly towards the small furry critters? Or that the mammals lost their fear of the snake? Not at all.

What is real is competition for resources, regardless of species, unless that particular animal allowed the other to share (social behavior). By giving up or sharing food, water, warmth, hides and space, what does the ball python gain in return that it could not otherwise have while solitary?

You may say that by creating a larger enclosure, this will provide enough space and resources for both snakes. Fun fact: the land where ball pythons are found is much, much bigger than originally thought. Some scientists believe that they travel for miles under the right circumstances, like looking for mates or better hunting ground. If that instinct never left them in captivity, would a bigger enclosure meet both snakes' needs?

In my experience, my local Pet store asked for my help when 1 of the ball pythons wasn't eating for weeks. They were desperate and worried. Turns out he was living in the same enclosure as another ball python of similar size and age. They followed my suggestion to move the ball python to its own enclosure and it ate without issues. Sometimes the most simple answer is the one in front of you.

Btw, most people back in the day was convinced that the earth was round and it wasn't the center of the universe. Sailors, explorers, astronomists, travelers, fishermen and many others who observed the ocean, land and sky had a big inkling that is what is going on. It was a matter of waiting for the technology to prove it.

[KMG]

Every snake without a thermostat doesn't get burned, but we still understand why it's important to use one to prevent injuries. Cohabbing species that don't naturally do that behavior seems the opposite of good husbandry to me. I found the pics from a recent post on a local page, I'm just not sure how anyone cohabbing would prevent this or why it would be worth the risk to your animals to experiment on them.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With the little information shared about that situation I don't think any conclusions can be made. Kinda like the media giving half the story.

Were they in a small tank with one hide? Or something more like the OP and I said may work which is a large enclosure with many different spots for the snakes to stay apart? Do you know any more?

[KMG]

So what I'm seeing is it is acceptable to discuss other animals in relation to snakes only if you are speaking against the topic.

This tolerant America we have now days is really something. Instead of engaging me in conversation of what I said no argument was given and I was told to stop relating snakes to other animals. Seems to me the only reason to do that would be an inability to effectively argue against it.

Being told not to discuss off topic animals I will comply with the mods and will not comment on what was said recently.