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  1. #61
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    Have you been adding reptile probiotics to her food, after being on medication for infected scent glands? I sure would. It might be that she is feeling stomach irritation as "hunger" & let's face it, some king snakes are "eating machines" anyway- it doesn't take much for some of them to chase their tails (or their owners, lol).

    I'd also stop using those wood chips as substrate, just in case she's swallowing some.

    Does she have a big enough water bowl to bathe in? When she bites herself, what I'd do is quickly put her in the water bowl- it won't hurt anything but should "change the channel". Water spray was too subtle for this king snake, obviously. She does sound like she has a hyper-active prey drive but I hope you can calm her down- I'd not want to see any snake of mine doing this either.

    I've only had one snake* that ever bit their own tail- it was an elderly albino cal-king, & she only did it once. She seemed a bit senile att, & she passed away about a year after that.

    *Another was a w/c turned over to me- sadly a brief acquaintance- a longnose snake that suddenly kept biting itself & then died quickly- apparently from parasites from their herp diet in the wild.

    You've done everything possible for this snake, it's not fair that you've had so many crazy issues with one snake, & now this again? What an ordeal.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  3. #62
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    She bit her tail again this morning and has spent the last six hours wrapped around one of the fake plants in her enclosure. She noses the ground and her coils like she's looking for whatever she thinks she caught, and just now she even decided to bite her actually body after nosing it for a little. She's never had a food drive anywhere close to this before, it feels like it came out of nowhere.
    (And now as I'm writing this post, she got so erratic and excited by the vibrations from the garage door opening, which is not a response she normally has)

    The probiotics are a good call, I tried adding them to her water a while ago, but it didn't seem very effective so I stopped. I'll try putting them directly on her food. I am also planning to change her to paper towel and clean everything in there, just in case something smells like mouse. I'll email my vet as well, but I'm just not sure what they can really do about it besides another fecal and blood panel.

    It is a little disappointing to be dealing with another weird issue, especially one with no clear cause. Ultimately though, I just want to give her a good life. She really is such a nice snake and pet otherwise.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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  5. #63
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    She bit her tail again this morning and has spent the last six hours wrapped around one of the fake plants in her enclosure. She noses the ground and her coils like she's looking for whatever she thinks she caught, and just now she even decided to bite her actually body after nosing it for a little. She's never had a food drive anywhere close to this before, it feels like it came out of nowhere.
    (And now as I'm writing this post, she got so erratic and excited by the vibrations from the garage door opening, which is not a response she normally has)

    The probiotics are a good call, I tried adding them to her water a while ago, but it didn't seem very effective so I stopped. I'll try putting them directly on her food. I am also planning to change her to paper towel and clean everything in there, just in case something smells like mouse. I'll email my vet as well, but I'm just not sure what they can really do about it besides another fecal and blood panel.

    It is a little disappointing to be dealing with another weird issue, especially one with no clear cause. Ultimately though, I just want to give her a good life. She really is such a nice snake and pet otherwise.
    No, don't dilute probiotics in her water (it's too weak, unless you temporarily use a really small water bowl so it's more concentrated- & they'll spoil, so you'll have to replace daily), or apply to the rodent's fur (most falls off). Before you feed, pry open the rodent's mouth & stuff in as much powder as you can, or if it will dilute in water, try injecting it into the rodent's body. I don't recall what size prey she's eating- there's not much room in a mouse's mouth, especially if not full-grown. (You could also liquify them just enough to tube-feed them into her, if you're comfortable doing that. You could make it a "meal" by mixing in some Carnivore Care or Gerber's Chicken baby food.)

    Good luck- you've been so diligent to get her healthy. And her issues are quite unusual.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 05-25-2022 at 02:40 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  7. #64
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    She's gotten a bit calmer over the last couple days, although she did try to give a small bite to her tail in the holding tub today while I was cleaning her tank. She's on paper towel now to keep her tail cleaner while it's wounded, and with less decor so she has less stuff to hit herself against if she starts thrashing again. I also sprayed some vetericyn on her tail and will continue to monitor her. I'm not sure what else I can do besides that. The vet emailed back, but all they said was that this can be caused by pain, which I already knew, and that they might need to see her in person to figure out what's going on.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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  9. #65
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    She's gotten a bit calmer over the last couple days, although she did try to give a small bite to her tail in the holding tub today while I was cleaning her tank. She's on paper towel now to keep her tail cleaner while it's wounded, and with less decor so she has less stuff to hit herself against if she starts thrashing again. I also sprayed some vetericyn on her tail and will continue to monitor her. I'm not sure what else I can do besides that. The vet emailed back, but all they said was that this can be caused by pain, which I already knew, and that they might need to see her in person to figure out what's going on.
    I'm so sorry to hear this is still going on. Maybe she has some sort of neurological problem- like a phantom pain, maybe from a 'birth defect' or later injury that wasn't obvious & noticeable?
    Pain has always been the first thing that comes to my mind, but I wish it wasn't so hard to track down. Poor little snake!
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  10. #66
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    Good news, she hasn't displayed any weird/overly reactive behavior since my last post. She went into shed almost immediately (probably her body trying to heal herself) so all she did was hide, then after she shed I fed her so she spent a couple days hiding and digesting, and now it's been a couple days of her exploring as usual and she seems to be back to normal. Assuming the behavior doesn't come back, I'm willing to write this off as some bizarre fluke since I really can't think of what would have caused it.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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  12. #67
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    Good news, she hasn't displayed any weird/overly reactive behavior since my last post. She went into shed almost immediately (probably her body trying to heal herself) so all she did was hide, then after she shed I fed her so she spent a couple days hiding and digesting, and now it's been a couple days of her exploring as usual and she seems to be back to normal. Assuming the behavior doesn't come back, I'm willing to write this off as some bizarre fluke since I really can't think of what would have caused it.
    That's great to hear, I sure hope this is the "new normal". Maybe she had some sort of neurological pain that has resolved- perhaps if she was a human, she'd be a hypochondriac, who knows?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  14. #68
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    Well, out of nowhere she entered food mode overdrive again and just now bit her tail, except this time it was down her throat and she was trying to swallow it. It took spraying her in the face and dunking her head in the water bowl several times to get her to let go. I still have no idea what's wrong with her or what I can do about this, so taking her to the vet and getting some tests done is the only thing I can think of.
    The problem is that I am leaving on a pretty long trip in a couple of days, and even if I get an appointment through the emergency room, I don't know if that will be enough time to figure everything out. Also, one of my parents will be home while I'm gone to take care of her, but if she ends up needing injections again or something, I don't know if that's something they can take care of. Any advice for how to move forward? I'm feeling kind of stuck.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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  16. #69
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    I'm so sorry to hear this keeps happening with her. Many king snakes (including MBKs) have crazy-strong food drives- I'm wondering if she's just "wired a bit wrong", due to perhaps some genetic quirk- possibly some inbreeding, as some breeders do, either intentionally for optimal appearance, or without realizing it, what with all the captive-breeding done these days. I'm starting to doubt there's any solution from your vet at this point- you've ruled many things out.

    When dogs chew on things they aren't supposed to, some use products that taste bad to make them stop- I'm trying to think of something you could apply SAFELY to her tail to make it really unappealing (taste bad)- otherwise, one of these days, she just may go too far at self-harming? King snakes do eat other snakes, & apparently her food drive is winning out over common sense or any perception of pain?

    Have you tried bathing her after she eats? Not immediately after, but maybe a day or so- to make sure all rodent scent (left from constricting prey) is gone from her body & her enclosure? Maybe clean her enclosure totally after each meal too?
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 06-26-2022 at 08:30 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  18. #70
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    Yeah, it sure lines up with her being a kingsnake, but she actually had a really calm food drive before this--basically nonexistent unless there was a mouse around. I feel like if this was because of genetic hardwiring it would have shown up earlier. Although for what it's worth she does have one "split" belly scale which is supposedly a sign of inbreeding.

    Making her tail taste bad is a good idea. I am really concerned about her taking this too far after seeing her swallow her tail. All the sources I've read say that a snake truly trying to eat itself will probably die. It's hard thinking of what could go on there though, it needs to stick, preferably not rub off, and also not irritate the existing wounds.

    I also thought that maybe she was smelling mouse somewhere and that's what was keeping her in food mode, but she ate 8 days ago and was acting normal up until now, when any mouse smell should theoretically be weakest, especially since I'm cleaning her enclosure throughout the week whenever she poops. I fed her today as well right after she bit herself and she's acting the same before and after she ate. Baths and more thorough cleaning are definitely worth a try though, they certainly can't hurt. Just not sure how it's going to go with me not at home since my parents basically never deal with the snake.

    As for the vet, I also have no idea what they can do or find in a phys exam that will be new, but part of me is wondering if maybe somehow in the past couple months she contracted some kind of parasite and ordering yet another fecal could be worth it.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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